Gas & Electricity

Cotontoquinn said:
Worth watching Panaroma tonight - now on BBC iPlayer catchup.
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Just watched it. It's a fucking disgrace. What's the point of having a diverse energy supply if they're all pegged to the price of gas anyway? It'd be like the price of bananas going up and as a result, the price of all other fruit increasing too.
 
ultimateharold said:
At least there will be rations of Victory Gin.

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The irony. These twats have no shame and zero integrity.

from The Grocer

’ The UK craft gin market risks losing valuable EU custom due to higher costs caused by Brexit, distillers have warned.They have been hit with bills for customs declarations – frequently up to €20 per declaration – and national VAT on receiving UK goods.

The charges had “killed EU trade” according to David Thomas, co-founder of Welsh gin producer Jin Talog. A recent shipment to Belgium saw the customer incurring VAT and clearance costs payable to the amount of €31.67 (£27.38) on a £43 bottle of gin, he said.

Selling direct to EU consumers had been a growing part of Jin Talog’s business prior to Brexit, he told The Grocer. Now they were being asked to pay “nearly 100% of the bottle price” in charges. “Expecting any business to work on those conditions is ludicrous in the extreme,”
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Because the Russian war on Ukraine has caused all gas prices to rise. Renewable electricity is pegged to gas prices (yes, I know).
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I know the price of the energy has risen but has the price of the none energy part of the bills risen as well eg tarrif?
If so why?
 
SilverFox2 said:
I know the price of the energy has risen but has the price of the none energy part of the bills risen as well eg tarrif?
If so why?
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I assume you are talking about Standard Charges.
Standard Charges have risen mainly because of the failed energy companies. The costs of those failures are being recovered through the standard charges we pay. Ofgen don't set a price cap for standard charges.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
Just watched it. It's a fucking disgrace. What's the point of having a diverse energy supply if they're all pegged to the price of gas anyway? It'd be like the price of bananas going up and as a result, the price of all other fruit increasing too.
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It is stupid but it's pretty obvious why, it's because renewables are not consistent in producing electricity. Solar today is producing just 4.4% of our electricity, for wind it's 21%. On some days it's less and on some days it's more, however gas is consistently the majority source because it has to be.

So if they indeed put you on a renewable tariff separated from the price of gas then yeah it'd be cheaper but you'd have to accept that the lights would be off most of the time.

This is the idiocy of the green movement which demands a wholesale move to renewables with solar panels and wind turbines replacing gas. They can't quite answer what we do when there is no wind blowing and no sun shining. The answer can only be nuclear but that requires massive investment and tricky questions for the greens and NIMBY types.
 
SilverFox2 said:
I know the price of the energy has risen but has the price of the none energy part of the bills risen as well eg tarrif?
If so why?
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This time last year Kwasi Kwarteng was saying the market was working well and if supply companies went bust then that was a good thing. What he didn't say was that we would be picking up the tab for their failure. I suspect if he becomes chancellor his position may well change.
 
In Spain the vat on electricity and now gas has been lowered to 5 percent presumably because tax revenue on a much larger amount is frankly exaggerating an already massive problem.
Hlow can any Government be so greedy as to not tailor its ttax system to compensate for the increased revenue it will accumulate.
 
inbetween said:
It is stupid but it's pretty obvious why, it's because renewables are not consistent in producing electricity. Solar today is producing just 4.4% of our electricity, for wind it's 21%. On some days it's less and on some days it's more, however gas is consistently the majority source because it has to be.

So if they indeed put you on a renewable tariff separated from the price of gas then yeah it'd be cheaper but you'd have to accept that the lights would be off most of the time.
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But that's not how it should work. They should sell their electricity to the national grid at cost plus whatever profit they are entitled to. And then the cost to the consumer should be the average cost of all of the forms of electricity generated. I accept that you can't separate off different forms of electricity. But at the moment, we have a ridiculous situation where if gas goes up by 50%, then all energy goes up by 50%. But what should actually happen is that if gas goes up by 50% and generates half of the power in the national grid, then prices to the consumer should go up 25%, because only half of the electricity they're getting comes from gas. At the moment, it's like a restaurant making you a shepherds pie and doubling the price of the pie because potatoes doubled in price, even though the rest of the ingredients stayed the same.
 
Can anyone point me towards a website that will give me the hourly cost of running the usual household appliances (or better still, tell me). I'm particularly keen to find out about washing machines, tumble driers, flat screen TVs, electric ovens and hobs.
My hot water comes from the gas boiler...is it cheaper to just have this on during the Economy 7 hours and then switch off when everyone has had their morning shower? At present, it is left on 24/7
Cheers.
 
The Earl of Abington said:
Can anyone point me towards a website that will give me the hourly cost of running the usual household appliances (or better still, tell me). I'm particularly keen to find out about washing machines, tumble driers, flat screen TVs, electric ovens and hobs.
My hot water comes from the gas boiler...is it cheaper to just have this on during the Economy 7 hours and then switch off when everyone has had their morning shower? At present, it is left on 24/7
Cheers.
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The Earl of Abington said:
Can anyone point me towards a website that will give me the hourly cost of running the usual household appliances (or better still, tell me). I'm particularly keen to find out about washing machines, tumble driers, flat screen TVs, electric ovens and hobs.
My hot water comes from the gas boiler...is it cheaper to just have this on during the Economy 7 hours and then switch off when everyone has had their morning shower? At present, it is left on 24/7
Cheers.
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Your boiler won’t make hot water unless you run hot taps.
 
inbetween said:
It is stupid but it's pretty obvious why, it's because renewables are not consistent in producing electricity. Solar today is producing just 4.4% of our electricity, for wind it's 21%. On some days it's less and on some days it's more, however gas is consistently the majority source because it has to be.

So if they indeed put you on a renewable tariff separated from the price of gas then yeah it'd be cheaper but you'd have to accept that the lights would be off most of the time.

This is the idiocy of the green movement which demands a wholesale move to renewables with solar panels and wind turbines replacing gas. They can't quite answer what we do when there is no wind blowing and no sun shining. The answer can only be nuclear but that requires massive investment and tricky questions for the greens and NIMBY types.
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Sunny Scotland already generates 100% of its electricity needs from renewables. Unfortunately we still pay for it as if it’s all gas generated.
 
I'm guessing it's the same for most people but I've just been checking and it's amazing how little gas we use during the summer months when the heating and gas fire is off. Since early June, we've used just 21 units of gas so roughly 660kWh. That's with 2 of us in a 3 bed semi and using the gas oven most nights. The winter months are clearly the killer in terms of usage as we all know but this highlights just how much gets used when the central heating is on compared to when it's not.
 
I'm With Stupid said:
But that's not how it should work. They should sell their electricity to the national grid at cost plus whatever profit they are entitled to. And then the cost to the consumer should be the average cost of all of the forms of electricity generated. I accept that you can't separate off different forms of electricity. But at the moment, we have a ridiculous situation where if gas goes up by 50%, then all energy goes up by 50%. But what should actually happen is that if gas goes up by 50% and generates half of the power in the national grid, then prices to the consumer should go up 25%, because only half of the electricity they're getting comes from gas. At the moment, it's like a restaurant making you a shepherds pie and doubling the price of the pie because potatoes doubled in price, even though the rest of the ingredients stayed the same.
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Generally what you're saying is already happening. The price of wholesale gas has gone up by 600%-700% in a year but our bills haven't gone up by that (not yet anyway!).

The average price of forward bought gas in March 2021 was £50 per MWh, it's now beyond £400 per MWh.

Forget profit, this change has already bankrupted many small suppliers.
 
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