General Election - 4th July 2024

[mexico1970]

And yet:

Trustworthy: Sunak 39% / Starmer 49%
Likeable: Sunak 34% / Starmer 50%
In touch: Sunak 17% / Starmer 66%

Sunak did well: 55%
Sunak did badly: 44%

Starmer did well: 60%
Starmer did badly: 40%

Cost of living: Sunak 38% / Starmer 51%
NHS: Sunak 28% / Starmer 61%
Education: Sunak 31% / Starmer 52%
Tax: Sunak 53% / Starmer 32%
Immigration: Sunak 45% / Starmer 42%
Climate change: Sunak 24% / Starmer 48%

All from the same poll that said it was a marginal win for Sunak. Apart from the fact that he got away with the £2000 tax claim far too often, it doesn't look like 'winning' actually changes people's view of Sunak.

The point is though, he should have gotten nowhere near it.

 

[TinFoilHat]

There’s no way I’m voting Tory but I do find Starmer a frustrating watch.

Just way too much trying not to lose,

Arteta mentality

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

There’s no way I’m voting Tory but I do find Starmer a frustrating watch.

Just way too much trying not to lose, rather than trying to win hearts and minds. I know that is probably all he needs to do, and it’s rational and sensible and yada yada… it’s just insipid and uninspiring watching him walk on eggshells. Just tell ‘em to get fucked, Keir. I guess this is why I’m not a politician.

Sunak, on the other hand, is a little sneering weasel-man and every word out of his mouth makes me want to kick puppies.

In terms of the “debating performance” agnostic of policy, I think it was pretty even but only because little weasel man wasn’t told to shut the fuck up more often so he just rode roughshod over the moderator. Then Starmer tried to do the same and she starts reminding him of the rules! YCMIU. Also 45 seconds is such a shit format, what were they thinking?

At this point you try to ensure that you don’t lose, especially coming from a lowly position and then driving past your opposition.

The change will happen if they get there, or we’ll be left with more of the same.

 

[Don Karleone]

And yet:

Trustworthy: Sunak 39% / Starmer 49%
Likeable: Sunak 34% / Starmer 50%
In touch: Sunak 17% / Starmer 66%

Sunak did well: 55%
Sunak did badly: 44%

Starmer did well: 60%
Starmer did badly: 40%

Cost of living: Sunak 38% / Starmer 51%
NHS: Sunak 28% / Starmer 61%
Education: Sunak 31% / Starmer 52%
Tax: Sunak 53% / Starmer 32%
Immigration: Sunak 45% / Starmer 42%
Climate change: Sunak 24% / Starmer 48%

All from the same poll that said it was a marginal win for Sunak. Apart from the fact that he got away with the £2000 tax claim far too often, it doesn't look like 'winning' actually changes people's view of Sunak.

Most will only read the headline though. It isn't going to make the slightest bit of difference anyway. One winner in this GE.

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

And yet:

Trustworthy: Sunak 39% / Starmer 49%
Likeable: Sunak 34% / Starmer 50%
In touch: Sunak 17% / Starmer 66%

Sunak did well: 55%
Sunak did badly: 44%

Starmer did well: 60%
Starmer did badly: 40%

Cost of living: Sunak 38% / Starmer 51%
NHS: Sunak 28% / Starmer 61%
Education: Sunak 31% / Starmer 52%
Tax: Sunak 53% / Starmer 32%
Immigration: Sunak 45% / Starmer 42%
Climate change: Sunak 24% / Starmer 48%

All from the same poll that said it was a marginal win for Sunak. Apart from the fact that he got away with the £2000 tax claim far too often, it doesn't look like 'winning' actually changes people's view of Sunak.

You won’t see most of this, the Tory media will ensure you see what they want you to see in order to influence our judgement.

As you say, strange to see on the same poll, all depends how the questions are framed.

 

[bluenova]

The point is though, he should have gotten nowhere near it.

I must admit I was a bit surprised, as Starmer has usually had much the better of PMQs.

I suspect a stronger moderator would have made for a much better display all round. I know I'm biased, but Starmer was reminded of the 45 second rule on multiple occasions, while Sunak got away with talking across Julia Etchingham. I suspect he'll need a different tactic for the BBC debate, and I wonder if the £2000 will be called out.

 

[mexico1970]

I must admit I was a bit surprised, as Starmer has usually had much the better of PMQs.

I suspect a stronger moderator would have made for a much better display all round. I know I'm biased, but Starmer was reminded of the 45 second rule on multiple occasions, while Sunak got away with talking across Julia Etchingham. I suspect he'll need a different tactic for the BBC debate, and I wonder if the £2000 will be called out.

Politically motivated people will watch these debates, hardly any casual users will even engage and probably wont know anything about the combatants.

What the non political person will notice is gossip and mud because that's what sticks.

 

[bluenova]

You won’t see most of this, the Tory media will ensure you see what they want you to see in order to influence our judgement.

As you say, strange to see on the same poll, all depends how the questions are framed.

It's more of a "win" (draw is probably more accurate given the margin of error) on the night, but seems like it doesn't actually change opinions of the two leaders, as the rest of the polling pretty much matches what the polls say.

"Yes, he got his points across well, we just still don't agree with them."

 

[The Future’s Blue!]

I must admit I was a bit surprised, as Starmer has usually had much the better of PMQs.

I suspect a stronger moderator would have made for a much better display all round. I know I'm biased, but Starmer was reminded of the 45 second rule on multiple occasions, while Sunak got away with talking across Julia Etchingham. I suspect he'll need a different tactic for the BBC debate, and I wonder if the £2000 will be called out.

Like a nice person, Starmer waited to get his message across that it was a lie from Sunak, based on fabricated data that Sunak himself had asked the Treasury to give a report upon. To get to that figure the Tories had to include the new ‘policy’ on upping the pension tax rate, which nobody could counter as it was unseen and unfunded.

Has Sunak played all his cards early, surely Starmer will now understand how brutal these things are.

 

[mayo31]

What we seen tonight was somebody who had experience in these things against somebody who had not. Starmer lost by allowing Sunak to propagate the line that he would raise taxes by £2,000.00, which Starmer finally denied. Sunak had the upper hand and pushed the ‘Plan’ line on everything which had an effect.

Depends where you stand but in my mind, Sunak just about came out ahead but now, with experience, Starmer should make a better show and bring out the worst of Sunak.

On another note, I thought the 45 second time limit was awful and Sunak took advantage of Starmer’s naivety, continuing to bang on about the alleged tax rise from Labour while Starmer tried to follow the rules.

Sunak showed what he is though

A slimy midget

He got stung when Starmer outed him as betting on the economy years back, robbing us basically

Starmer like most labour leaders plays fair, they would be better being dirty. The Tories will do anything and say anything to remain in power

Labour like most working class Brit’s believe in fair play, it does not exist. That myth was created by the rich

Starmer would be better saying things like Sunak is a liar, detailing his wife’s company links in Russia, his covid fine, his plan to fuck off to America etc

Get dirty and beat the **** up