Have many of our “fans” become entitled?

Dribble said:
The OP created this thread in respect to entitled City fans. I'm trying to stay on point, but we seem to be swerving all over the place.

So if the manager, his staff or the players don't go larging it up all Billy Big Bollocks, isn't that the example we should follow?

OK, let's put it another way has Pep, his staff or the players ever said we're shit scared of "Example Team" & we believe we're gonna get stiffed regardless of what we do?
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Yes we are going over the same place, I even said I agree with most of what you said but you're confusing confidence with entitlement when they are two different things. It doesn't belong in the conversation for me.

Making us favourites or simply saying "I fancy our chances in this game because..." isn't being billy big bollocks, as long as it's a balanced view, I think I've explained all of that well enough.

Pep wont say the above publicly or make us favourites publicly because all that does is invite public pressure or worse still gives the gameplan away. Also, he has gone as far saying he accepts when others make us favourites but that it doesn't really mean much if we don't perform on the day in so many words.

Privately though I'm sure Pep will tell the team "We can beat this team if we play to our best/concentrate on what we have to do to win". Support/encouragement/faith/confidence, these are the words I'd use for that and any fans giving a similar message, never entitlement. I was surprised that Pep said something feels different this year so early into the CL this season, but I don't think he was being entitled by saying that either. It's just how he felt based on his own team's performances, the only entitlement there, is the right to have his own opinion.

I've asked you that last question already in response to the question you asked me. Saying we just have to turn up or the other team have no chance is not balanced or sensible I agree but you seem preoccupied on one side of the same coin. So in a way you're agreeing that it's not a case of: confident = entitled vs doubtful = not entitled/sensible/non-raggy . Neither of those outlooks are sensible, it's also a different conversation from the entitlement one.
 
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Metalartin said:
Yes we are going over the same place, I even said I agree with most of what you said but you're confusing confidence with entitlement when they are two different things. It doesn't belong in the conversation for me.

Making us favourites or simply saying "I fancy our chances in this game because..." isn't being billy big bollocks, as long as it's a balanced view, I think I've explained all of that well enough.

Pep wont say the above publicly or make us favourites publicly because all that does is invite public pressure or worse still gives the gameplan away. Also, he has gone as far saying he accepts when others make us favourites but that it doesn't really mean much if we don't perform on the day in so many words.

Privately though I'm sure Pep will tell the team "We can beat this team if we play to our best/concentrate on what we have to do to win". Support/encouragement/faith/confidence, these are the words I'd use for that and any fans giving a similar message, never entitlement. I was surprised that Pep said something feels different this year so early into the CL this season, but I don't think he was being entitled by saying that either. It's just how he felt based on his own team's performances, the only entitlement there, is the right to have his own opinion.

I've asked you that last question already in response to the question you asked me. Saying we just have to turn up or the other team have no chance is not balanced or sensible I agree but you seem preoccupied on one side of the same coin. So in a way you're agreeing that it's not a case of: confident = entitled vs doubtful = not entitled/sensible/non-raggy . Neither of those outlooks are sensible, it's also a different conversation from the entitlement one.
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You're not getting the point. ManUre fans have spent the last 30 years with "20 titles" "3 Champions Leagues" " X amount of FA & League Cups" "Your club's shit because we've got more than you have" etc....

It stuck in my fuckin throat, but now we've got fans doing the same to other fans, which to me shows a lack of class by becoming like those we despise.

My take on this? When asked about our chances vs PSG, I simply said they're dangerous & we've got our work cut out against them. However, they've got as much to worry about us, as we have them, so ultimately it comes down to our boys to do the business when called upon.

When asked about our achievements, I generally say how proud I am that we've lived up to our potential, & considering where we were 20 years ago, I'm in dreamland & appreciating every second of the football we play & the success it's brought. However, I don't dwell on it as we have to keep progressing because other teams won't just stand still admiring us.

I also acknowledge that nothing lasts forever & point to Liverpool going 30 years without a league title as a warning. I've personally cringed at City fans bragging how much money we've got, & that as long as Sheikh Mansour & his trillions remain, we'll continue to splatter all before us for centuries to come, or until global warming ends life as we know it, whichever comes first.

This is the EXACT type of rhetoric which makes me hate ManUre & Liverpool fans, & is the very last thing I want City fans to become. However I'm sad to say I've heard these views said in front of me, & read them online from a small number of fans. Again, this is what I think the OP is trying to highlight, so let's stay on topic otherwise we'll still be here going round in circles this time next year. :-|
 
You could argue that every single one of us from the Sheikh to the board to the management team to the playing team to club staff to the fans have all become entitled.

Mancini brought a winning mentality to City that we’d not had for decades. Part of a winning mentality is having an attitude that not winning is not good enough for this football club anymore. A draw isn’t good enough, never mind a defeat. A defeat in a dead rubber game the other night is not good enough, even if it doesn’t mean anything, it’s still not good enough. Anyone not playing well is not good enough, anyone doing things that contribute to not winning is not good enough, never mind a shit performance. We have to win every game, we have to, nothing else is good enough. We should be completely focused on winning being the only thing we should ever do… nothing but winning is good enough for Manchester City Football Club!

And there’s nothing wrong with any of that. That’s the healthy mentality of a winner.

With that comes that sense - especially when we play the football we play and break the records we break - that we deserve to win. That’s a kind of definition of entitled. We should win because we’ve built the best team, built the best squad, we’ve got the best manager, we play the best football, we play to a level that should win titles. What we’ve done at this club deserves success.

Now that’s a bit different to the sense of entitlement where you think you should be given privileges or special treatment because of who you are.

We don’t have that.

In Pellegrini’s final season we’d allowed our squad to drop in quality, we progressively got to a stage where I felt we were the most unfit team in the league (and West Ham players said the same thing after Pellers left them n’all) and we weren’t playing good football. In Pep’s first season we didn’t sort the squad out ready for him to come, our squad was hugely lacking for his arrival. We didn’t deserve anything around that time. We weren’t good enough. So our sense of entitlement wasn’t in our makeup in the sense that we understood we weren’t good enough and didn’t deserve to win things just because we had done previously or we’d brought in Pep.

But the sense of entitlement at that time was in that we were now a club where not being good enough was not fucking good enough anymore, and that we should be doing better than accepting not being good enough.

However, again, I accept that the window of time where we will be in this position of not accepting not winning, won’t last forever. I, and probably all of us, understand that sport is cyclical and nobody stays at the top forever. We will have our moment, maybe a couple of decades at the top, and we will eventually fade to see other clubs, different clubs, succeed. That’s how it should be, that’s what sport should be like. We accept that and when we know we aren’t good enough but have had a good run and that time has run out our entitlement of thinking nothing but winning is good enough will also fade away.

We’ll see others winning and we’ll look back on our time at the top with great memories, but we won’t just expect them to last forever because we were once great so we should always be.
 
Good to see you.

I joined this only a couple of years ago. Like life, you can get everything here. The good, the bad and the ugly.

Expectations will increase when someone performs better at their job so it’s unsurprising if that’s what happened for a lot fans. You could say there’s a bit of entitlement but I wouldn’t be able to gauge or measure that.

BM wouldn’t be a good barometer to represent all the fans. Football is a sport that makes emotions run high. Clouds judgement. By the way, not on Twitter but it’s a cesspool. It’s never and probably won’t ever bother me the different view people have. In some ways they all have an underlying theme- wishing that City do well.

You’ll always have the ‘old’ vs ‘new’ fan dynamic. Also, the home vs foreign fan dynamic. Let’s add the ‘Manc’ vs ‘others’ dynamic. It’s inevitable. Some would argue that the ‘bad’ days are romanticised. On the other hand, some of the more recent views can be seen as extreme on the other side of the spectrum.

After all that waffling, the answer is there is some entitlement. There are also higher expectations. It’s not going to change. Best to ignore it all unless a new fan forum is made for people from the 70s till 2008 and one for fans from 2008 till date. Sad to see the infighting but it’s mostly opinions at the end of the day. Whether absolutely shit or not, people will always have one.
 
If entitled means expecting more from our team than we used to then yes we're entitled.

I've seen dozens and dozens of posts over the last ten years containing quotes like "it was better back in the old days"

Reality is, it wasn't. Yes having beers and standing on the terraces at far flung grotty grounds with your (younger) mates was a laugh and the 90 minutes would often spoil the day. But that was OK back then because it was what we were used to. You'd have liked us to win a few more games, may be get promoted, may be, good god, get to a Cup Semi Final, but all we wanted was a "relative improvement" or a "don't go backwards".

And I think that's what we still basically want today - a "relative improvement" or a "don't go backwards".
Its just we starting from a much, much, much higher point.

This means of course if we actually win Ole Big Ears at the end of the month we're on a hiding to nothing going forwards, because our "satisfaction" factor will be dashed if we don't keep doing it year after year.
 
Dribble said:
You're not getting the point. ManUre fans have spent the last 30 years with "20 titles" "3 Champions Leagues" " X amount of FA & League Cups" "Your club's shit because we've got more than you have" etc....

It stuck in my fuckin throat, but now we've got fans doing the same to other fans, which to me shows a lack of class by becoming like those we despise.

My take on this? When asked about our chances vs PSG, I simply said they're dangerous & we've got our work cut out against them. However, they've got as much to worry about us, as we have them, so ultimately it comes down to our boys to do the business when called upon.

When asked about our achievements, I generally say how proud I am that we've lived up to our potential, & considering where we were 20 years ago, I'm in dreamland & appreciating every second of the football we play & the success it's brought. However, I don't dwell on it as we have to keep progressing because other teams won't just stand still admiring us.

I also acknowledge that nothing lasts forever & point to Liverpool going 30 years without a league title as a warning. I've personally cringed at City fans bragging how much money we've got, & that as long as Sheikh Mansour & his trillions remain, we'll continue to splatter all before us for centuries to come, or until global warming ends life as we know it, whichever comes first.

This is the EXACT type of rhetoric which makes me hate ManUre & Liverpool fans, & is the very last thing I want City fans to become. However I'm sad to say I've heard these views said in front of me, & read them online from a small number of fans. Again, this is what I think the OP is trying to highlight, so let's stay on topic otherwise we'll still be here going round in circles this time next year. :-|
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I don't think I disagree, really, but I also think that some City fans think there is some kind of core thing that makes United specifically egregious rather than it just being a general thing that all fans of successful clubs go through. That their golden period aligned with our shit period meant it hurt even more, and I grew up in the 90s in a school with 100s of United "fans" who has seen their team play less than I had, so I know how much it hurt, but you could take any football team across the football league, have them have the decade we have had, and you'd see that bravado sneak in. It's part of the game - give me winning things and fans getting cocky over relegation days and fans being humble.
 
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