Political relations between UK-EU

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Vic said:
1. Isn't that the oven-ready deal Liar Johnson went to the country with?
2. The future of the UK less important than the Tories' future electoral prospects.
3. The backstop was long gone. So instead of an over-ready deal, Johnson goes to the country on a manifesto of "we will throw out the deal we've got and in the year left until we leave we will start arguing with the EU over stuff already agreed".

I really am finding it hard to believe you ever made a living advising government ministers on anything.
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Vic - I have tried to patiently explain - but I will try again, without resorting to the insults that seem to be seeping back into the posts of a few of you.

TBF - I blame myself for daring to speak out to prevent the false narratives - I should have known there would be a need for a certain group to shout myself and others down

1. I do not post to have engagement with you and a few others - I post to help those that are - if only IMO - able to be objective, wish to look to the future and seek to prevent them falling for false narratives

2. You can keep on goading and insulting me as much as you like - I am fortunate that I am not remotely affected at whatever level of insult you want to try - although something new would be appreciated as some are getting a bit 'samey'

I hope that helps
 
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metalblue said:
Neither side was really defined though. There is a myth peddled that all leave voters voted for different versions of leave whilst all remain voters voted for the same version. That simply isn’t the case - many remain voters acknowledged that the EU needed to change from its present form (arguing it was easier to change it from the inside). But ultimately the ballot paper didn’t give us choices of scale but rather a binary choice of in or out.

And the question was passed by the HoC - I recall labour voting for it ... Tory party fuck up you say?
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And who was responsible for the question on the ballot paper that caused all of this? (the answer is "David Cameron"). This whole exercise is a textbook example as to why direct democracy is not the form of government that ended up being used worldwide.
 
Vic said:
Causes, mitigate, responsibility....

You really do think it's going to be a shitstorm, don't you?
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What I am saying is that there should have been a major programme led by the CO and orchestrating the preparations within each of the major departments, especially Defra, Home Office, HMRC and others - to prepare the UK for leaving the EU.

Literally 1000s of issues would have been identified and their impact assessed along with the options for mitigations identified. Selecting and planning the appropriate mitigation would have been undertaken through appropriate governance and resulted in determination of policy of required, along with funding, resources etc.

A big and challenging programme for sure - but, not rocket science and simply what needed to be and should have been done and which was stopped by Hammond/May. It needed to start in 2016 or 2017 at the latest.

Accordingly, there will be the potential for 1000s of issues to arise that will now need to be dealt with 'in-flight' and therefore their number and impact will be greater due to the actions of May/Hammond
 
Vic said:
Maybe I'm wrong. That sounds like you have advised ministers on how to avoid simple but awkward questions. Say it's the wrong question.
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Nope - sorry, you have been (IMO) just talking nonsense on this subject for a couple of days

I don't feel the need to correct you for the sake of others - I think that the people that I am interested in influencing are generally clear about the nonsense being spouted by the deniers
 
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bluejon said:
And who was responsible for the question on the ballot paper that caused all of this? (the answer is "David Cameron"). This whole exercise is a textbook example as to why direct democracy is not the form of government that ended up being used worldwide.
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Is the answer David Cameron?

He wanted to remain so probably thought we’d never vote for a hard brexit so I’ll give them that option and the one I want them to pick.

His prompt resignation was a massive “yours” mind, the snide ****
 
metalblue said:
Is the answer David Cameron?

He wanted to remain so probably thought we’d never vote for a hard brexit so I’ll give them that option and the one I want them to pick.

His prompt resignation was a massive “yours” mind, the snide ****
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The arrogant little prick thought everyone would just go with what he wanted. Seen an article about his mrs moaning that brexit was hurting her business...... Aye love, you only have to look as far as the garden shed to find out who's responsible for that.
 
journolud said:
No they didn’t. They re-elected a Tory government
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Just my opinion then?? - You think?

Ok - my opinion is that there was a massive shift to support a Tory government because there was only one party that was clearly committed to delivering the result of the 2016 referendum
 
mcfc1632 said:
Just my opinion then?? - You think?

Ok - my opinion is that there was a massive shift to support a Tory government because there was only one party that was clearly committed to delivering the result of the 2016 referendum
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Correct but that’s very different to saying they held the Tory government of 2016-2019 to account by re-electing them
 
mcfc1632 said:
What I am saying is that there should have been a major programme led by the CO and orchestrating the preparations within each of the major departments, especially Defra, Home Office, HMRC and others - to prepare the UK for leaving the EU.

Literally 1000s of issues would have been identified and their impact assessed along with the options for mitigations identified. Selecting and planning the appropriate mitigation would have been undertaken through appropriate governance and resulted in determination of policy of required, along with funding, resources etc.

A big and challenging programme for sure - but, not rocket science and simply what needed to be and should have been done and which was stopped by Hammond/May. It needed to start in 2016 or 2017 at the latest.

Accordingly, there will be the potential for 1000s of issues to arise that will now need to be dealt with 'in-flight' and therefore their number and impact will be greater due to the actions of May/Hammond
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So it's too late, and Leaver Liar Johnson's decision not to seek a further extension to sort out some of the 1000s of issues means ... that it's going to be a shitstorm.

So - given all this obvious lack of planning under May / Hammond - why didn't Frost tell Johnson we'd need at least another year (even before Covid hit) to avoid a shitstorm? A shitstorm is bad enough, but an in-flight shitstorm?

You didn't want an extension, you were happy dragging it out in the hope of late EU concessions, and the UK lost a year with that stupid tactic. Blame others for delays if you like, and blame Remainers for the hope of a second referendum that would enable the electorate to change mind, but if you're trying to pretend that your heroes have not faffed around and wasted the time for better preparations for over a year since the GE - j'accuse. It's pure hypocrisy.
 
Vic said:
So it's too late, and Leaver Liar Johnson's decision not to seek a further extension to sort out some of the 1000s of issues means ... that it's going to be a shitstorm.

So - given all this obvious lack of planning under May / Hammond - why didn't Frost tell Johnson we'd need at least another year (even before Covid hit) to avoid a shitstorm? A shitstorm is bad enough, but an in-flight shitstorm?

You didn't want an extension, you were happy dragging it out in the hope of late EU concessions, and the UK lost a year with that stupid tactic. Blame others for delays if you like, and blame Remainers for the hope of a second referendum that would enable the electorate to change mind, but if you're trying to pretend that your heroes have not faffed around and wasted the time for better preparations for over a year since the GE - j'accuse. It's pure hypocrisy.
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Vic - you are wasting your time. I pointed out to 1632 hours ago that he had hailed Frosty the Showman and his team of "professional negotiators" as the 2nd coming yet somehow they never saw this coming when signing off the great deal....... its just bullshit that will hamstring the country for years
 
bluejon said:
And who was responsible for the question on the ballot paper that caused all of this? (the answer is "David Cameron"). This whole exercise is a textbook example as to why direct democracy is not the form of government that ended up being used worldwide.
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The answer is actually the Electoral Commission.
 
The infantile, desperate attempts by the likes of Micron and the EU Commission to basically claim that the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine is ineffective as a means of covering up their ineptitude are hardly likely to improve UK/EU relations.

I suspect they will be squirming a lot more in a few weeks as the success of our vaccine roll out becomes more apparent and they have even more flak coming their way from outraged EU citizens.
 
Invisible Man's Bandage said:
The infantile, desperate attempts by the likes of Micron and the EU Commission to basically claim that the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine is ineffective as a means of covering up their ineptitude are hardly likely to improve UK/EU relations.

I suspect they will be squirming a lot more in a few weeks as the success of our vaccine roll out becomes more apparent and they have even more flak coming their way from outraged EU citizens.
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They haven’t said it’s ineffective.
 
Invisible Man's Bandage said:
The infantile, desperate attempts by the likes of Micron and the EU Commission to basically claim that the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine is ineffective as a means of covering up their ineptitude are hardly likely to improve UK/EU relations.

I suspect they will be squirming a lot more in a few weeks as the success of our vaccine roll out becomes more apparent and they have even more flak coming their way from outraged EU citizens.
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Novartis agree with you

 
Invisible Man's Bandage said:
Micron explicitly has said exactly that. The rest coming out of Germany and the EU is designed to destroy the reputation of the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine.
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The EU approved the drug. Germany, Poland have advised against use for over 65’s as the data was insufficient by their rules.

Switzerland, not in EU, have refused to authorise it. I assume, using your logic, we will now have ‘outraged Swiss citizens demanding to join the EU‘.
 
Invisible Man's Bandage said:
Micron explicitly has said exactly that. The rest coming out of Germany and the EU is designed to destroy the reputation of the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine.
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No he used the word, but it only means the whole vaccine is ineffective when you completely take it out of context. Nobody has ever said the Oxford vaccine is ineffective and left it at that. As you know.
Hopefully and very likely he’s wrong about over 65 s, but there is more to it than you’d like to imply.
Anyway back to the real topic of eu/ uk relations in the future. How do you suggest we go forward on the N.Ireland shambles, Plus the
 
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