The Liverpool Thread

[mcmanus]

I fucking hate Liverpool

 

[Bluemoon115]

Re: Question

The boycotting was down to the current owners at that time who tryed their best to destroy the club. Not attending the games was part of the boycott for many fans back then aswell.

Its not easy to dish out 40 odd quid for every single home game as alot of you will know but i do think we will sell out every home game this season.

@Mad Eyed Screamer We played west brom in late august last season and it was still under hodgson, i think you are probably talking about the bolton game which was still under hodgson and going on when we where fighting in the bottom half of the table under that clueless twat so yeah you cant really blame people for not paying 40 quid to watch pure shite

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

You Scousers are the perfect fucking parody of yourselves, do you know that?

The first time in fucking years when your club actually needed the fans to get behind the team, to become the twelfth man, and you all go AWOL. After what, 2-3 months of bad football? Try years of it, try fucking years of it, like most teams suffer, while having bile from United/Arsenal/Chelsea/your lot all year round. An then to brand this cowardly retreat as a "boycott"? Seriously?

 

[fbloke]

More on the money chase.

Ronald Devine is an owner of lending firm Mill Financial, which is staring at more than $70 million in losses as a result of an investment it made in the Liverpool Football Club. Devine has spent many months trying to figure out how to get the money back and avoid one of the biggest losses ever associated with an investment in a sports team.

Last year Mill Financial sued George Gillett Jr., claiming the Colorado financier personally owed the lender $117 million due to the Liverpool fiasco. Devine, however, has not been able to squeeze any money out of the financially troubled Gillett and has embarked on a new strategy: He is going after the Royal Bank of Scotland.

In September Mill Financial added the Royal Bank of Scotland to its complaint, claiming the bank breached a contract and secretly seized control of Liverpool FC, selling it for a lowball price that left Mill Financial with nothing.


“RBS knowingly took improper actions to protect its interests without providing Mill Financial and the other creditors with advance notice so that those creditors could seek to protect their interests,” Mill Financial said in its amended complaint, filed in Manhattan’s New York state court. “As a direct result of RBS’s breach, RBS has been paid in full on its [Liverpool Football Club]-related loans while Mill Financial has received nothing.”

Royal Bank of Scotland denied wrongdoing and recently suggested Mill Financial look to Gillett to recoup its losses. “Mill Financial’s ploy is a transparent effort to bring a deep pocket into the fray,” RBS said in legal papers filed last week that asked a New York state judge to dismiss the bank from the lawsuit.

It is becoming more and more clear that Devine and Mill Financial stand to be big losers in the Liverpool deal that went awry. Gillett and Thomas Hicks, a leveraged buyout artist from Texas, bought Liverpool FC, one of the world’s most iconic sports teams, in a 2007 deal that was financed mostly with debt. Within three years, however, the team was drowning in debt and sold to John Henry and the other owners of the Boston Red Sox. The sale was forced by Royal Bank of Scotland, which was owed $445 million, over the objections of Hicks and Gillett, who mounted an unsuccessful legal fight over the deal. Wells Fargo was also owed some money by the team.

Mill Financial, which is based in Springfield, Virginia, originally sued Gillett last year, saying he was personally liable, together with some business entities, under guarantees of loans that Gillett and his Booth Creek Management took out in connection with his ownership of Liverpool FC. Gillett denied the claim, but Mill Financial filed in New York state court a copy of an unlimited guarantee signed by Gillett in 2008.

Mill Financial, however, never moved for summary judgment and the case just languished till September, when Mill Financial got Gillett to stipulate he would let Mill bring RBS into the New York proceeding. It seems that Devine doesn’t think litigating only against Gillett can result in much of a recovery. Instead, Mill Financial is now claiming that RBS breached a contract by stifling Mill Financial’s attempt to purchase the team or refinance the loans itself.

RBS claims that Mill Financial’s loans were to Gillett Football LLC and were only guaranteed by Gillett. RBS says the only contract it had with Mill Financial was extremely limited in nature and allowed RBS to sell Liverpool to Henry’s New England Sports Ventures instead of to Mill Financial, which also tried to buy it. “Despite actively participating in the sale process for the Club, Mill Financial was out-maneuvered by other bidders,” RBS claims.

 

[Vienna_70]

Listening to talksport after the red dippers played Swansea.

I can't remember who the main presenter was, possibly Ian Danter, but the co-presenter was that Scouse numpty, Alvin Martin and the conversation went something like this:

Danter: "Liverpool at this stage of the season are onLy two points better off than they were last season under Roy Hodgson, so what's the difference?"

Martin: "Well, it's early in the season yet."

YCMIU!

 

[Unknown_Genius]

Re: Question

The boycotting was down to the current owners at that time who tryed their best to destroy the club. Not attending the games was part of the boycott for many fans back then aswell.

Its not easy to dish out 40 odd quid for every single home game as alot of you will know but i do think we will sell out every home game this season.

@Mad Eyed Screamer We played west brom in late august last season and it was still under hodgson, i think you are probably talking about the bolton game which was still under hodgson and going on when we where fighting in the bottom half of the table under that clueless twat so yeah you cant really blame people for not paying 40 quid to watch pure shite

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

You Scousers are the perfect fucking parody of yourselves, do you know that?

The first time in fucking years when your club actually needed the fans to get behind the team, to become the twelfth man, and you all go AWOL. After what, 2-3 months of bad football? Try years of it, try fucking years of it, like most teams suffer, while having bile from United/Arsenal/Chelsea/your lot all year round. An then to brand this cowardly retreat as a "boycott"? Seriously?

Not going to a match, because it might not be the worth the money, isn't really a boycott as such. Many City fans (including myself) didn't turn up during the 06-07 season, because of the dross under Pearce.

 

[Crouchinho]

When Spurs were at the bottom for a couple of months under Ramos the stadium was still full, same when Gross was in charge. Even when being in the shadows of the neighbours it was full

When City got relegated, been in the shadows of the neighbours too, it's been full.

Everton haven't had a pot to piss in for near 20 years yet they still get over 30k inside their horrible stadium.

Soon as Liverpool hit a rough patch under Hodgson they abandoned ship. They can blame the owners all they like, but they still bought the likes of Torres, Riera, Mascherano, Keane, Glen Johnson, Dossena, Aquilani, Aurelio, Meriles, Lucas, Babel, Benayoun, just that lot surely is over 100m

They seem happy blowing 75m on Downing, Henderson & Carroll though.

 

[moomba]

After 11 games last year, Liverpool only had 4 less points than they do today.

And Roy had fuck all to spend, and was working for an unstable club which was basically under administration at the time.

 

[bluemoondays]

Next year, if Liverpool get the CL (big if looking at top of the table) it'll be touch and go whether they will get into pot 2. If they don't get even Europa Cup next year they will definitely be pot 3 and may even be in pot 4.............

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Just reading a blog about NESV, the Liverpool owners and there are an awful lot of similarities to the Glazers. Although Liverpool FC publish accounts, as a UK company, NESV are registered in Delaware, where very little has to be disclosed. Therefore no one knows who the NESV directors are, how they are funded, how much debt thay have and what that debt (if any) is secured on.

Their owner sneered about the Etihad deal, asking "what were the losing bids?" yet a Boston-based company (where he is also based) offered them £25m for a kit manufacturing deal when their previous supplier had only offered something like half that. Pot,kettle, black?

I think they've gambled everything on getting back into the CL and it will be interesting to see what happens if they fail again this season. It really could all go tits up for them quite spectacularly.

 

[The Fat el Hombre]

Just reading a blog about NESV, the Liverpool owners and there are an awful lot of similarities to the Glazers. Although Liverpool FC publish accounts, as a UK company, NESV are registered in Delaware, where very little has to be disclosed. Therefore no one knows who the NESV directors are, how they are funded, how much debt thay have and what that debt (if any) is secured on.

Their owner sneered about the Etihad deal, asking "what were the losing bids?" yet a Boston-based company (where he is also based) offered them £25m for a kit manufacturing deal when their previous supplier had only offered something like half that. Pot,kettle, black?

I think they've gambled everything on getting back into the CL and it will be interesting to see what happens if they fail again this season. It really could all go tits up for them quite spectacularly.

I'm not sure it if it will 'all go tits up for them quite spectacularly' if they don't make the top four, but they might find themselves in a very frustrating situtation similar to ours a couple of years back but with a lot less money to spend. Competition for the top four is unreal. Will they break it this year? I doubt it. Will the players they've signed improve next year? Carroll and Henderson are young enough, adam and downing might have settled more by then but these players simply don't look good enough. It was only when we bought the likes of Silva and Yaya that we cracked the top four - players in another dimension to the liverpool ones I just mentioned. If they fail to reach the top four will they loosen the purse strings again and spend the money necessary to crack the top four, or have they spunked their big investment chance on these overpriced donkeys and never-will-be's?

 

[Blue Hefner]

In my opinion L'pool will be nowhere near 4th place, I think they will finish 6th and be a lot of points off 4th.

As for next season I can't see how they will improve. Their 'policy' of buying British will have to go out of the window if they want to be a serious team and so will King Kenny

Their players and manager are not good enough over a season. Suarez for all his rave reviews hasn't scored that many, the less said about Carroll, Henderson and Downing the better and once Reina eventually gets the message that they are going nowhere he'll be off add to that Carragher and Gerrard aren't getting any younger I can't see them being a major force to the top 4/5 places any time soon

 

[fbloke]

Just reading a blog about NESV, the Liverpool owners and there are an awful lot of similarities to the Glazers. Although Liverpool FC publish accounts, as a UK company, NESV are registered in Delaware, where very little has to be disclosed. Therefore no one knows who the NESV directors are, how they are funded, how much debt thay have and what that debt (if any) is secured on.

Their owner sneered about the Etihad deal, asking "what were the losing bids?" yet a Boston-based company (where he is also based) offered them £25m for a kit manufacturing deal when their previous supplier had only offered something like half that. Pot,kettle, black?

I think they've gambled everything on getting back into the CL and it will be interesting to see what happens if they fail again this season. It really could all go tits up for them quite spectacularly.

The business models for 3 of the Sky 4 are predicated on the income from CL qualification.

Its interesting that even last season Arsenal were talking about CL qualification as if it was the same as winning silverware.

Liverpool were the only one of the three clubs that has struggled to get a manager good enough to more or less g'tee that qualification and now Arsenal are looking down that barrel as well.

When Fergie finally goes United can only hope that their debts are reduced because then there will be no guarantees about their European status.

Liverpool have the toxic mix of big debt, bad owners, weal squad and flakey managers at exactly the time that Spurs and City became top 4 contenders.

It could just be that Arsenal are on the very brink of that as well as AW is not producing it, the ownership is still undecided, the squad needs real investment and although they are financially OK they are about to lose revenue streams from the old Highbury developments.

And all the while City are cementing their place with no debt, a young manager, a young squad and one eye on massive investment in an academy.

Bye, bye Liverpool as a force?

 

[leighton]

Just reading a blog about NESV, the Liverpool owners and there are an awful lot of similarities to the Glazers. Although Liverpool FC publish accounts, as a UK company, NESV are registered in Delaware, where very little has to be disclosed. Therefore no one knows who the NESV directors are, how they are funded, how much debt thay have and what that debt (if any) is secured on.

Their owner sneered about the Etihad deal, asking "what were the losing bids?" yet a Boston-based company (where he is also based) offered them £25m for a kit manufacturing deal when their previous supplier had only offered something like half that. Pot,kettle, black?

I think they've gambled everything on getting back into the CL and it will be interesting to see what happens if they fail again this season. It really could all go tits up for them quite spectacularly.

I'm not sure it if it will 'all go tits up for them quite spectacularly' if they don't make the top four, but they might find themselves in a very frustrating situtation similar to ours a couple of years back but with a lot less money to spend. Competition for the top four is unreal. Will they break it this year? I doubt it. Will the players they've signed improve next year? Carroll and Henderson are young enough, adam and downing might have settled more by then but these players simply don't look good enough. It was only when we bought the likes of Silva and Yaya that we cracked the top four - players in another dimension to the liverpool ones I just mentioned. If they fail to reach the top four will they loosen the purse strings again and spend the money necessary to crack the top four, or have they spunked their big investment chance on these overpriced donkeys and never-will-be's?

They dont have the right manager to get them into the champions league. There next 2 games are huge for King Kenny. IF they loose both games they will be calling for his head. Also they will find it harder to get into the top 4. Look at the form of Arsenal and Spurs they are just too good for Liverpool. They need to sort out there defence big time. Arsenal looks like they have turned the corner after a poor start. IF they get champions league again next season it will be a great season for them after that start. Players are geling and Vermalen is back to fitness there defence with him in it isnt that bad. Add into the mix they are getting other players fit and back into the team they have every chance of getting the champions league and more than likely they will spend some money in January they are the team to watch at the moment. Playing some easy games now the longer the keep the run going the harder they will be to beat for the bigger teams.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

When you look at the history of John W Henry & Tom Werner in US sports it's less than stellar. Werner bought the San Diego Padres baseball team and cut costs repeatedly (in the same way the Glazers did at Tampa Bay) before selling them. They naturally never achieved anything.

Henry initially did a better job at the Boston Red Sox but a lot of that was down to wonder-kid General Manager Theo Epstein. It all fell apart for the Red Sox last season and both Epstein and the coach have left amid stories of the star pitchers boozing & stuffing themsleves on fried chicken when they should have been practicing on their non-playing.

Neither of them have any appreciation of what football or the PL is about, apart from some vague recognition that it's a "strong global brand". I suspect they really hadn't worked out just how cut-throat it is and how much CL income means to clubs like Liverpool. They will get a shock when they see how much cash it takes just to keep a top PL team's head above water, if they haven't already found out.

When they were in the CL, they were making losses mainly due to the costs of servicing the debts incurred by Hicks & Gillett. Much of that debt (although not all of it) has gone, saving them that cost but they don't have CL income, which just about balances the debt cost out. So unless they've massively trimmed their wage bill then they aren't making money or generating free cash. NESV's answer (if they fail to get into the CL again) will probably be to cut costs, with hte higher earners going and the youngsters becoming the mainstay of the team. If anyone comes in with decent offers for Suarez, Lucas, Enrique or Reina they'll take them. They certainly won't fund significant transfer expenditure over and above any incoming funds.

If Qataris were to buy a club like Newcastle and inject significant funds, then that might even seal off a route into the top four for the foreseeable future, assuming Chelsea don't implode as well.

 

[hellothere]

When you look at the history of John W Henry & Tom Werner in US sports it's less than stellar. Werner bought the San Diego Padres baseball team and cut costs repeatedly (in the same way the Glazers did at Tampa Bay) before selling them. They naturally never achieved anything.

Henry initially did a better job at the Boston Red Sox but a lot of that was down to wonder-kid General Manager Theo Epstein. It all fell apart for the Red Sox last season and both Epstein and the coach have left amid stories of the star pitchers boozing & stuffing themsleves on fried chicken when they should have been practicing on their non-playing.

Neither of them have any appreciation of what football or the PL is about, apart from some vague recognition that it's a "strong global brand". I suspect they really hadn't worked out just how cut-throat it is and how much CL income means to clubs like Liverpool. They will get a shock when they see how much cash it takes just to keep a top PL team's head above water, if they haven't already found out.

When they were in the CL, they were making losses mainly due to the costs of servicing the debts incurred by Hicks & Gillett. Much of that debt (although not all of it) has gone, saving them that cost but they don't have CL income, which just about balances the debt cost out. So unless they've massively trimmed their wage bill then they aren't making money or generating free cash. NESV's answer (if they fail to get into the CL again) will probably be to cut costs, with hte higher earners going and the youngsters becoming the mainstay of the team. If anyone comes in with decent offers for Suarez, Lucas, Enrique or Reina they'll take them. They certainly won't fund significant transfer expenditure over and above any incoming funds.

If Qataris were to buy a club like Newcastle and inject significant funds, then that might even seal off a route into the top four for the foreseeable future, assuming Chelsea don't implode as well.

We got rid of alot of "dead wood" at the start of the season, for instance Jovanovic who was apprently on around 90k a week which is a fucking joke, Poulsen who i imagine was on around 40-50k and others like konchesky, ngog, insua and we have also sent joe cole out on loan who was on around 100k a week.

At the end of last season when we sold torres and bought in andy carroll we still made a small profit after all the in's and outs, thats not to say that i dont think we over spent on carroll, of course we did and no liverpool fan denys that and it was pretty much a panic buy.

At the start of this season we had a net spend of around 36mil which really is not over the top, i dont understand why people think we would be in some kind of debt and struggling with funds.

 

[Blue Hefner]

When you look at the history of John W Henry & Tom Werner in US sports it's less than stellar. Werner bought the San Diego Padres baseball team and cut costs repeatedly (in the same way the Glazers did at Tampa Bay) before selling them. They naturally never achieved anything.

Henry initially did a better job at the Boston Red Sox but a lot of that was down to wonder-kid General Manager Theo Epstein. It all fell apart for the Red Sox last season and both Epstein and the coach have left amid stories of the star pitchers boozing & stuffing themsleves on fried chicken when they should have been practicing on their non-playing.

Neither of them have any appreciation of what football or the PL is about, apart from some vague recognition that it's a "strong global brand". I suspect they really hadn't worked out just how cut-throat it is and how much CL income means to clubs like Liverpool. They will get a shock when they see how much cash it takes just to keep a top PL team's head above water, if they haven't already found out.

When they were in the CL, they were making losses mainly due to the costs of servicing the debts incurred by Hicks & Gillett. Much of that debt (although not all of it) has gone, saving them that cost but they don't have CL income, which just about balances the debt cost out. So unless they've massively trimmed their wage bill then they aren't making money or generating free cash. NESV's answer (if they fail to get into the CL again) will probably be to cut costs, with hte higher earners going and the youngsters becoming the mainstay of the team. If anyone comes in with decent offers for Suarez, Lucas, Enrique or Reina they'll take them. They certainly won't fund significant transfer expenditure over and above any incoming funds.

If Qataris were to buy a club like Newcastle and inject significant funds, then that might even seal off a route into the top four for the foreseeable future, assuming Chelsea don't implode as well.

We got rid of alot of "dead wood" at the start of the season, for instance Jovanovic who was apprently on around 90k a week which is a fucking joke, Poulsen who i imagine was on around 40-50k and others like konchesky, ngog, insua and we have also sent joe cole out on loan who was on around 100k a week.

At the end of last season when we sold torres and bought in andy carroll we still made a small profit after all the in's and outs, thats not to say that i dont think we over spent on carroll, of course we did and no liverpool fan denys that and it was pretty much a panic buy.

At the start of this season we had a net spend of around 36mil which really is not over the top, i dont understand why people think we would be in some kind of debt and struggling with funds.

You can talk about net spent all you like but the bottom line is that you have around £80mil invested in Carroll, Downing, Henderson and Adam. They will not be able to be sold to payback the investment and neither will they be able to produce enough on the pitch to make to L'pool high enough up the table(top 4) to payback the investment

So L'pool will either have to invest again(big gamble) or accept that top 6 is it

 

[waspish]

When you look at the history of John W Henry & Tom Werner in US sports it's less than stellar. Werner bought the San Diego Padres baseball team and cut costs repeatedly (in the same way the Glazers did at Tampa Bay) before selling them. They naturally never achieved anything.

Henry initially did a better job at the Boston Red Sox but a lot of that was down to wonder-kid General Manager Theo Epstein. It all fell apart for the Red Sox last season and both Epstein and the coach have left amid stories of the star pitchers boozing & stuffing themsleves on fried chicken when they should have been practicing on their non-playing.

Neither of them have any appreciation of what football or the PL is about, apart from some vague recognition that it's a "strong global brand". I suspect they really hadn't worked out just how cut-throat it is and how much CL income means to clubs like Liverpool. They will get a shock when they see how much cash it takes just to keep a top PL team's head above water, if they haven't already found out.

When they were in the CL, they were making losses mainly due to the costs of servicing the debts incurred by Hicks & Gillett. Much of that debt (although not all of it) has gone, saving them that cost but they don't have CL income, which just about balances the debt cost out. So unless they've massively trimmed their wage bill then they aren't making money or generating free cash. NESV's answer (if they fail to get into the CL again) will probably be to cut costs, with hte higher earners going and the youngsters becoming the mainstay of the team. If anyone comes in with decent offers for Suarez, Lucas, Enrique or Reina they'll take them. They certainly won't fund significant transfer expenditure over and above any incoming funds.

If Qataris were to buy a club like Newcastle and inject significant funds, then that might even seal off a route into the top four for the foreseeable future, assuming Chelsea don't implode as well.

We got rid of alot of "dead wood" at the start of the season, for instance Jovanovic who was apprently on around 90k a week which is a fucking joke, Poulsen who i imagine was on around 40-50k and others like konchesky, ngog, insua and we have also sent joe cole out on loan who was on around 100k a week.

At the end of last season when we sold torres and bought in andy carroll we still made a small profit after all the in's and outs, thats not to say that i dont think we over spent on carroll, of course we did and no liverpool fan denys that and it was pretty much a panic buy.

At the start of this season we had a net spend of around 36mil which really is not over the top, i dont understand why people think we would be in some kind of debt and struggling with funds.

Think you doing fine financial but if Liverpool don't get champs league this season can they invest 50m+ in the summer?

 

[fbloke]

Yes, I am at a loose end at the mo' but I have compiled some lists, with costs of transfers for both United and Liverpool.

I have just finished the one for the Dippers and i truth its quite shocking how much has been wasted at Anfield.

Ignore the idea of net spend/recouping via player sales as this is the bluntest way of measuring what a club spends to build or refresh a squad - something City could not even dream of doing even when they sold the likes of SWP.

<a class="postlink" href="http://35-years-of-fun.over-blog.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://35-years-of-fun.over-blog.com/</a>

The current owners of LFC of course has shown that the club has to generate its own money for transfers, i.e. they wont invest from their own funds (unlike the good Sheikh) so if over £3/4bn has got LFC to 7th or 8th where will they be with far less being spent?

 

[LFC_2005]

Are you lot obsessed with us? I mean seriously a Liverpool thread...

Anyway, i don't see your problem with us... most of us haven't got a problem with you lot and actually want City to do well so United suffer, we both hate United so why do you hate us?

All this talk about John Henry, he has come out and said many times this season he will back Kenny in every transfer window and provide money for him to spend whenever he wants, we bought English players in the summer because we HAD to, you have to have a certain amount of English players in your squad, ours was full of foreign shit from when Rafa was in charge.

If we manage to get in the CL this season, big ask but if we buy 1 or 2 top players in January I don't see why we can't. Then in the summer we buy players as you lot did, the world class players.

You all say Downing has been shit this season, he could of had about 10 assists already, but our strikers are missing sitters every match. Henderson has been used as a right winger, god knows why, his best position is CM and he showed that against United and Everton (for the little time he got there). Adam does what he's there for, but can be so fucking frustrating at times. Carroll is the biggest waste of money in history.

And someone said on here we need to sort out defence out? Your joking right... we have conceded the 2nd less amount of goals behind Newcastle, and have allowed the fewest amount of shots on our goal than any other team, so i don't think so somehow.

I've said it for ages now, our best team is.. Reina, Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Enrique, Lucas, Gerrard, Maxi, Bellamy, Kuyt, Suarez (4-2-3-1) But fuck knows why Kenny doesn't try it.

 

[SWP's back]

Don't know if anyone's watching Uruguay, but Suarez is just destroying Chile practically by himself. Two goals in the first half and with a little luck could have been 4, creating chances for others too.

Wonder what he'll do if Liverpool don't qualify for CL.

Stay at Liverpool

Doubt it