Var debate 2019/20

[Dribble]

The commentators and journalists have not read the rule.

The rule says

It is an offence if a player:

• gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then:
  • scores in the opponents’ goal
  • creates a goal-scoring opportunity

AND THEN

Laporte does not and then anything. It inadvertently flicks off his arm which leads to controlled possession by another player.

This is about interpretation. It's not black and white at all. I think the rule was set up to stop a situation where the ball directly goes in off a players arm, or when it srikes an arm, and a player makes a conscious assist.

The VAR decision was harsh or wrong application of the handball rule.

To refine what you said, there's another interpretation which is if the ball hits the players hand, which controls it enough for him to score, or assist a direct goal scoring opportunity, OR the ball deflects off the hand/arm scoring a goal or assisting the scoring player, the goal should be disallowed.

However, all of this is open to ridiculous interpretation, namely phases. If the deflects off an arm & results in a goal, or deflects off an arm into the path of a team mate to score, I'd swallow that. The deflection from Laporte may have gone to Jesus, but look at the world class control needed, & how many players he had pass & avoid to score?

In my opinion, Jesus wasn't presented with a clear opportunity to score, he made that goal all by himself. Also, would the ball have deviated any further if it didn't touch Laporte's arm?

In terms of 'phases'; when did the crossing phase end? When the ball came to Jesus, or when he had an attempt? For instance, let's say the attempt by Jesus had struck the post, been controlled by Mahrez, passed back to Jesus who then scored. Where do the.phases begin & end?

Apparently Stockley House tried to explain this one to PL Clubs in the summer. By all accounts those in attendance were as baffled with this ruling when they left, as they were when they left, because so much was open to human interpretation.

I firmly support VAR, but I'm now of the view it should only be used for clear & obvious errors, & not to determine the length of a players' armpit hair. If there is no way a human could tell in real time, the benefit of the doubt should be given, instead of using lines at 50 fps on blurry TV images.

If a referee has clearly missed an offside or a handball, then VAR should assist. If only the use if VAR using AI & the law of averages can spot an infringement, then again the benefit of the doubt should go to the limit of what a human could reasonably be expected to spot.

VAR is now separating top flight football, from the rest of the global game, which is worrying. Offsides, should be clear & obvious. Handballs in the area should be for deflected goals, or a deflected ball leading directly to a goal. There wasn't enough of a deviation from Laporte arm which made the handball easy to spot in real time, & Jesus had too much to do to have directly benefitted from the slightest of touches.

What VAR should have done was shown if there was there a goal scoring advantage because of the handball, or would Jesus have scored without the touch by Laporte anyway. I believe the outcome would have been the same. In a reasonable world, the goal should have stood.

 

[ctid1894]

So VAR was "right" using the current laws.

It was "right" for the handball yesterday too.

The only one it hasn't been "right" on was the subjective penalty call yesterday. This will probably open the door for VAR to overturn decisions more in the long run.

Really, I’ve been searching all morning and even slowed the match replays down as much as possible and still can’t see conclusive proof Laporte handles that ball yesterday.

Can you show me one single frame that shows the ball hits Laporte’s hand? You’re so adamant it’s “RIGHT” that you’ve clearly seen something 50,000 fans, Sky pundits and the media haven’t seen, so please feel free to elaborate and show us all.

 

[daztrueblue91]

Do you have a dog and a white stick?

The VAR has stuck to the letter of the law. The letter of the law on the other hand ...

 

[ctid1894]

Every goal in every game this season has had a VAR review.

Why do the reviews on contentious decisions take 2/3 minutes in our games and less than 35 seconds in everyone else’s games? It appears the reviews are looked at in far more detail when it’s an opportunity to disallow one of our goals.

 

[stan bowles]

Is there any other sport other than football where the spectators in the ground are not permitted to view the evidence as the decision is being made ? Tennis, cricket, rugby, NFL...the crowd can view the evidence during the process whereby the decision is arrived at. That football hasn't insisted on this is ludicrous and frankly an insult to the paying fan (both home and away).

 

[Jazzman]

Dippers 6 goals no VAR reviews
RAgs 4 goals no VAR review

Us 2 games 9 goals 3VAR reviews 2 goals chalked off

Raz mm's at best
Did it hit his hand? pep watched it back,sky analyis,neither could say for sure if it hit his hand

Stonewall pen against rodders,neville said the VAR ref should have been stronger and given it,on Salah at anfield that would be a pen

It's clear we are getting extra special attention,enjoy the next 36 games,just don't celebrate or expect to win the title

This is the problem in a nutshell. Super post!

 

[ctid1894]

The VAR has stuck to the letter of the law. The letter of the law on the other hand ...

You’ll have to show me the letter of the law that stipulates some cúnt can grab someone round the throat and wrestle them to the ground (not taking into account the different set of rules for Liverpool and United defenders).

 

[kaz7]

The raz offside last week was them showing off the tech and the fancy lines,watch what we can do,right down to the mm,fucking practising on us,good job we are 2 points down already

 

[Roachy]

Well this is going to be fun, isn't it. Not! I await the 2 scenarios that will confirm what many of us suspect. The first will be when an almost identical situation to yesterday occurs for an opposing team against us. The second is when the same thing happens when it's the dips or scum being reviewed.

 

[Nellies left peg]

As some fat twat off the radio used to say,it's all going to hell in a handcart.fans deserve better than this especially when we pay through the nose

 

[daztrueblue91]

You’ll have to show me the letter of the law that stipulates some cúnt can grab someone round the throat and wrestle them to the ground (not taking into account the different set of rules for Liverpool and United defenders).

That’s piss poor referring rather than VAR.

I rate Michael Oliver as one of the best refs in the PL, even if he does bottle big decisions. That said he was diabolical yesterday. That was easily the worst ref performance I’ve seen since Anthony Taylor against Chelsea.

 

[MCFC1993]

It's shit everywhere you go.

Apparently it took 4 mins in the Valencia game yesterday to make a decision on an offside goal.

Currently watching Saint-Etienne vs Brest (along with the Sheff Utd game), it's just took about 3 mins to award Brest their perfectly good goal.

Whole thing is ruining football across Europe.

 

[Bluephoria]

Rather than look at someone else's interpretation of the handball law - look at what it says:

It is an offence if a player:

• deliberately touches the ball with their hand/arm, including moving the hand/arm towards the ball
• gains possession/control of the ball after it has touched their hand/arm and then:
  • scores in the opponents’ goal
  • creates a goal-scoring opportunity
• scores in the opponents’ goal directly from their hand/arm, even if accidental, including by the goalkeeper

So VAR had to interpret the accidental handball by Laporte and determine if he gains possession/control and then creates a goal-scoring opportunity.

In my opinion it is meant to apply to a player who deliberately gets control of the ball accidentally and goes on to provide an assist not an inadvertent deflection..

This interpretation of the laws.

Agree with that.

 

[rnblade]

So the WWE takedown of Rodri goes unpunished and less than 30 secs later, Raz does pretty much the same thing and gets a yellow!!
Please tell me that there is consistency and no bias. I do not believe we are winning the PL this year, VAR and other influences will make sure of it.
Remember where you heard it!!!

 

[cibaman]

People are going to have to deal with the fact that we are going to have a lot of VAR controversies this season.

We dominate, create and play on the edge all the time. We bombard the opposition with crosses and runs, like no other side does. We don't make moves and runs that you see coming a mile away.

Naturally, this means that we will have more VAR reviews and tight calls than any other side. It's not going to get better unless they change the system.

I think these decisions would be easier to accept if they didn’t come like a bolt from the blue, an age after the goal has been “scored”.

I watch a lot of rugby league and cricket and you just don’t get these gut wrenching moments. In rugby, most of the video ref decisions relate to grounding. Its usually obvious that there’s some doubt over whether a try has been scored, but you know that the decision has been referred to the video ref as the referee holds his hands in the air and then you get to see the incident on the big screen. If it’s your team that has “scored” you hold back on the celebrations until the try is awarded.

But how many people in the ground yesterday knew that the goal was being reviewed ? Half of the Spurs fans were on their way to the exits. It’s been said that because Oliver stayed in the penalty area rather than going back to the centre circle we should have known that the goal hadn’t been awarded, but I just assumed he was staying their because our players were celebrating in the corner and he might have to book someone if they went into the crowd or took their shirt off.

I assume that VAR officials didn’t just rule out the goal on the basis of one look. They must have reviewed the incident several times. So as soon as it becomes apparent that there is an issue with the goal the ref needs to make a clear signal (such as holding his hands in the air like the rugby refs). And show the review on the big screen as it’s taking place. I would have still been sickened once the goal was ruled out, but perhaps not to the same extent

 

[mosssideblue]

It's shit everywhere you go.

Apparently it took 4 mins in the Valencia game yesterday to make a decision on an offside goal.

Currently watching Saint-Etienne vs Brest (along with the Sheff Utd game), it's just took about 3 mins to award Brest their perfectly good goal.

Whole thing is ruining football across Europe.

Will never happen, but the VAR officials should be given e.g. 45 sec max to make a determination. If the cannot do it in that period, the ref decision sticks

 

[bluebrother55]

The VAR has stuck to the letter of the law. The letter of the law on the other hand ...

And as we’ve seen with Scousers on top of Police vans......the law is indeed an ass.

 

[ctid1894]

That’s piss poor referring rather than VAR.

I rate Michael Oliver as one of the best refs in the PL, even if he does bottle big decisions. That said he was diabolical yesterday. That was easily the worst ref performance I’ve seen since Anthony Taylor against Chelsea.

Ok so as I comprehensively proved last week the VAR use on Sterling’s offside assist to Jesus was impossible to be conclusive due to the frame rate, which is again backed up in the media this weekend proving beyond any doubt that there’s a 38cm margin of error and Sterling was adjusted 2.4cm offside. You choose to ignore that entirely?

There’s also not a single conclusive image proving that Laporte handles that ball yesterday, not a single fucking one. It’s purely guesswork, but again you’re happy to ignore that as well.

Naive beyond belief.

 

[Phil1]

It’s all a bit wank isn’t it.

 

[deano ou812]

The whole thing is a fuck up,VAR in principle is fine it’s how the rules are being applied and the idiots implementing and using it which is the problem...