VAR thread 2022/23

[BlueHammer85]

The point of VAR was to minimise incorrect decisions and it just doesn't do that. It doesn't matter which direction Wellshit was going in, it was a penalty all day long and for the ref and VAR to both think otherwise says a lot. A few days later (can't remember which game) an innocuous shove was immediately blown up as a foul. As for the Cucurella incident VAR can intervene for violent conduct if not seen by the ref which this would fall under. Again how anyone can say what was done wasn't beggars belief. It was a red card offence and instead of a corner from which Spurs scored, Chelsea should have had a free kick and Spurs a red card. As for your picture above it's the first I have seen of it so would like to see the actual highlights in real time but looking at the picture I would say penalty. Presumably that's Norwich so a Championship game where VAR isn't used so maybe that's one of those 'incidences where they simply get it wrong'. My point is, even with VAR obvious penalties still are being missed which they shouldn't be. As it currently stands VAR needs a total overhaul and the clowns using it should be replaced with people who know how the to use it properly. It is being manipulated no doubt whatsoever.

we'll have to agree to disagree on a couple points

I think VAR has reduced the incorrect decisions, how many pens, free kicks, offsides and goals are CORRECTLY ruled out every week, loads - but that gets absolutely no mention, only the odd couple of bad decision every weekend get massively highlighted

that non penalty was indeed without VAR, absolutely shocking that wasn't given a penalty, but that's life without VAR and now players of Norwich and other clubs without VAR are calling for it, what do you say to them ?

'It is being manipulated no doubt whatsoever' - would need actual proof, presumably just in favour of Man Utd and Liverpool ? there would have to be a hell of a lot of people involved and officials to keep it this quiet for this long, pointing to an odd decision that goes there way and ignoring decisions that doesn't go there way isn't proof.

I will repeat as always, VAR isn't great, its not perfect and it does get incidences wrong but it's the right way to go

 

[Manc Born & Bred]

we'll have to agree to disagree on a couple points

I think VAR has reduced the incorrect decisions, how many pens, free kicks, offsides and goals are CORRECTLY ruled out every week, loads - but that gets absolutely no mention, only the odd couple of bad decision every weekend get massively highlighted

that non penalty was indeed without VAR, absolutely shocking that wasn't given a penalty, but that's life without VAR and now players of Norwich and other clubs without VAR are calling for it, what do you say to them ?

'It is being manipulated no doubt whatsoever' - would need actual proof, presumably just in favour of Man Utd and Liverpool ? there would have to be a hell of a lot of people involved and officials to keep it this quiet for this long, pointing to an odd decision that goes there way and ignoring decisions that doesn't go there way isn't proof.

i will repeat as always, VAR isn't great, its not perfect and it does get incidences wrong but it's the right way to go

Boring! Accept that the current use of VAR is awful and the right way to go is to have a system that is used the same week in week out with full transparency. The current state of VAR is awful but you carry on beating the drum. You can't debate with someone who has little or no knowledge of how the game is played and how the referees /VAR are not using VAR correctly and how it was sold to the fans. Thankfully schools are back soon and this site has an ignore button

 

[BlueHammer85]

Boring! Accept that the current use of VAR is awful and the right way to go is to have a system that is used the same week in week out with full transparency. The current state of VAR is awful but you carry on beating the drum. You can't debate with someone who has little or no knowledge of how the game is played and how the referees /VAR are not using VAR correctly and how it was sold to the fans. Thankfully schools are back soon and this site has an ignore button

Happy to scrap VAR but you will still moan, cry and call conspiracy with even more wrong decisions than we have now- and the officials can just say they 'never saw it' - sure that will please everyone

Glad you're looking forward to getting back to school, hope you enjoyed the break.

 

[Blue Mist]

Ah I see why you added me, what a strange response to a post by him, I thought it was the Gabby Jesus one and not the reply to bill and Ben the var men, what a weird guy.

Yes I worded it badly. I couldn't work out if he was supporting you or having a go.
Anyway, I like you and thats what counts.

 

[Stiff Little Wingers]

Happy to scrap VAR but you will still moan, cry and call conspiracy with even more wrong decisions than we have now- and the officials can just say they 'never saw it' - sure that will please everyone

Glad you're looking forward to getting back to school, hope you enjoyed the break.

You're right to say that now we've seen it, it's pretty hard to go back. But what you don't seem able to understand is that instead of being there to ensure the right decision is made within agreed parameters, half the time its primary directive is to protect the reputation of referees.
That coupled with the lack of transparency makes what looks to the naked eye as nonsensical become corrupt. And we know there is corruption as evidenced by the match commander, whoever the fuck that is, over ruling the clear and obvious trip on Foden by the Southampton goalie in the no fans title win. There's countless other examples of VAR decisions that are not just a bit interpretive but downright nonsense. Alexander -Arnold handball in his are v City anyone?

 

[Bill the Blue]

Happy to scrap VAR but you will still moan, cry and call conspiracy with even more wrong decisions than we have now- and the officials can just say they 'never saw it' - sure that will please everyone

Glad you're looking forward to getting back to school, hope you enjoyed the break.

How do you know that there will be "even more wrong decisions" made without VAR ?

You don't, as per usual you've just made that up..

VAR is a presently a clusterfcuk.

Officials like Taylor need to be held accountable for the calls they make or more to the point don't make instead of hiding behind the faceless Stockley Park ****'s .

Currently, nobody is held responsible for the decisions VAR make.

We're 2 match day games into the season and there have already been numerous, absolutely astonishing decisions churned out by VAR..

None more so than the rags first home game of the season which saw the away team denied..

A stonewall penalty..
A red card for Mctominay
A rags goal given despite a rags handball in the build-up
The rags captain escaping at least 2 yellow cards whilst already on a yellow card.

One game and 4 wrong calls..

Ask yourself, if Brighton had been the team committing the above offences would they have benefitted from the decisions the rags were given ?

If your answer is yes they would you'd be laughed off the forum..

VAR does itself no favours and leaves itself wide open to corruption calls.

The game mentioned above supports this statement 100% and you constantly banging on to the contrary doesn't change the fact that VAR is not fit for purpose..

See your team had a goal chalked off by VAR at the weekend and I was surprised that your penalty wasn't retaken as Henderson appeared to have both his feet off the goal line before Rice kicked it..


Real shame that..!

 

[Pingu the Penguin]

Would you scrap VAR completely and just go back to refs/officials only ?

I would actually. With a caveat. I’d let refs have a screen and allow them to consult it when they wish to, with the footage they review replicated for match goers and TV viewrs. After their review they would explain their decision mic’ed up to the crowd. Take VAR back to its roots - a tool to help refs

 

[the-ecstacy-of-eight]

...these things are massive and they have to get it right.

WTF?!

The whole VAR sham has been rushed into use from the start, seemingly with little or no thought given to implications regarding its use (eg. Speed of players vs camera frame rate - mm tolerance in offside decisions) followed by numerous law changes, yearly amendments to the VAR protocol usage ...etc...etc...etc... and it's STILL in it's teething period FOUR YEARS after it's introduction!

And you have the audacity to say "be patient, they have to get it right before they introduce it"

You're a joke pal!

 

[stonerblue]

Would you scrap VAR completely and just go back to refs/officials only ?

All day long

 

[Blue Mist]

I'm with Martin Samuel's on this. He is honest, competent, not afraid of the bullies at the rags and dips, professional.... I could go on.
He says it's fucked and I agree.

(Although I said it before him)

 

[Gazza]

I would question the role of the 'match commander' that is said to exist within the VAR team. I believe his decisions are made to make the game the most interesting it can be (the most sell-able) regardless of the right decision. United v Brighton, it's 2-0, United have just brought Ronaldo on and the crowd are now up for it, thousands of United fans all over the World are sat there hopeful of comeback now that their hero is introduced - Wellbeck getting fouled in the area and being awarded a penalty would ruin all that, so it wasn't given - but, and a bit but, United were too shit to benefit.

 

[Gorton_Tubster]

I would question the role of the 'match commander' that is said to exist within the VAR team. I believe his decisions are made to make the game the most interesting it can be (the most sell-able) regardless of the right decision. United v Brighton, it's 2-0, United have just brought Ronaldo on and the crowd are now up for it, thousands of United fans all over the World are sat there hopeful of comeback now that their hero is introduced - Wellbeck getting fouled in the area and being awarded a penalty would ruin all that, so it wasn't given - but, and a bit but, United were too shit to benefit.

Nah we don't know any of that.


Annoying that we know hardly enough about what goes on in the var room.

Maybe we will find out when they start giving us the selected and probably edited recordings of the decision making.

 

[BlueHammer85]

I would question the role of the 'match commander' that is said to exist within the VAR team. I believe his decisions are made to make the game the most interesting it can be (the most sell-able) regardless of the right decision. United v Brighton, it's 2-0, United have just brought Ronaldo on and the crowd are now up for it, thousands of United fans all over the World are sat there hopeful of comeback now that their hero is introduced - Wellbeck getting fouled in the area and being awarded a penalty would ruin all that, so it wasn't given - but, and a bit but, United were too shit to benefit.

Yet without VAR - the ref could just have awarded a penalty he saw from a corner for Man Utd , any tussle will do. Far more easier to manipulate the outcome without VAR

 

[Gazza]

Yet without VAR - the ref could just have awarded a penalty he saw from a corner for Man Utd , any tussle will do. Far more easier to manipulate the outcome without VAR

No, with VAR it goes to a secret room, with secret decisions, the man on the pitch is just a ref.

 

[Stephen230]

WTF?!

The whole VAR sham has been rushed into use from the start, seemingly with little or no thought given to implications regarding its use (eg. Speed of players vs camera frame rate - mm tolerance in offside decisions) followed by numerous law changes, yearly amendments to the VAR protocol usage ...etc...etc...etc... and it's STILL in it's teething period FOUR YEARS after it's introduction!

And you have the audacity to say "be patient, they have to get it right before they introduce it"

You're a joke pal!

They will never “get it right.” For as long as it exists it will be a never ending exercise in adapting and tinkering to try and improve. The NFL have had 50 years of trying to “get it right” and it’s still as contentious as ever.

 

[Blue Mist]

I would question the role of the 'match commander' that is said to exist within the VAR team. I believe his decisions are made to make the game the most interesting it can be (the most sell-able) regardless of the right decision. United v Brighton, it's 2-0, United have just brought Ronaldo on and the crowd are now up for it, thousands of United fans all over the World are sat there hopeful of comeback now that their hero is introduced - Wellbeck getting fouled in the area and being awarded a penalty would ruin all that, so it wasn't given - but, and a bit but, United were too shit to benefit.

I hate VAR but...... @richardtheref answered this for me some time ago. There is no such thing as a match commander. It was something the media introduced in an article regarding a disgraceful decision (against City - who would have guessed!)
I am happy to accept R the R's statement that it was a load of shite and that there isn't one.

 

[the-ecstacy-of-eight]

Yet without VAR - the ref could just have awarded a penalty he saw from a corner for Man Utd , any tussle will do. Far more easier to manipulate the outcome without VAR

Hypotheticals is all you've got pal.
They could do "this" without VAR, they could do "that" without VAR.
You never really comment about what they actually did WITH VAR, other than saying that it was worse before with ALL those blatantly offside goals and dives for penalties.

But now we've got mm offside goals given or not given (all manipulated by frame selection), and the "I don't think there was "enough" contact" vs "oh, that's a blatant foul". It's just swapping one set out and another set in.
VAR is a fucking SHAM!
It's just the same shit as it always was, corruption designed to manipulate, but now with a shiny new toy to fool the gullible.

VAR is a sham and the evidence is staring you squarely in the face.

 

[BlueHammer85]

Hypotheticals is all you've got pal.
They could do "this" without VAR, they could do "that" without VAR.
You never really comment about what they actually did, other than saying that it was worse before with ALL those blatantly offside goals and dives for penalties.

But now we've got mm offside goals given or not given (all manipulated by frame selection), and "I don't think there was "enough" contact vs "oh, that's a blatant foul".
VAR is a fucking SHAM!
It's just the same shit as it always was, corruption designed to manipulate, but now with a shiny new toy to fool the gullible.

VAR is a sham and the evidence is staring you squarely in the face.

Must be awful having this mindset watching the Sport

 

[Hart of the Matter]

I'm not here to defend VAR no matter what, I've said many times there will always be incidences where they simply get it wrong - I think that will always be the case, in fact, it will always be the case.

If I had to guess, I'd say VAR looked at that and saw Welbeck going away from goal and collision not enough to warrant a penalty if the Ref didn't think it was either.... - for me, its a pen

Cucurella hair pull - not seen it, but this has been explained :

VAR cannot advise that a referee has missed a general free-kick offence in open play that doesn't lead directly to a goal or penalty. If the referee misses a foul in the lead-up to a corner, the VAR cannot tell the referee to cancel that set piece. If the team then scores from that corner, the goal cannot be disallowed. The only way the VAR can get involved in this situation is if they feel there has been a red-card offence.

Hair pulling is rare, and isn't specifically covered within the Laws of the Game so comes under either violent conduct or unsporting behaviour, depending on the specifics, though the mere act isn't an automatic dismissal. But when off the ball and with force it would be considered by most referees to be a red card.


+++

My turn,

can you explain to me why this wasn't a penalty ?

View attachment 53106

Same stuff with VAR, explain this not being red carded with VAR

 

[the-ecstacy-of-eight]

Must be awful having this mindset watching the Sport

Yep, and then I remember you and your mindset, and realise that life aint so bad after all :)