Religion

Magicpole said:
I look at the book in its entirety. I cannot balance the hate with the love. To love cannot involve genocide. Cannot accommodate the direction to kill those who do not share your beliefs. Cannot sit with the principal that to own other human beings is just. Cannot sit with instructing a father to kill his son. Cannot live with a man giving up his daughters to be raped by a mob to save angels. Cannot live with condemning people to spend an eternity of burning for failing to believe. Cannot live with forgiving a life of evil, because someone takes the route of accepting him.

I was brought up to believe this shit. To fear hell. To believe he was good. Once I started to actually read the book, I could not see this being as anything other than a vengeful psychopath. I was able to separate the wheat from the chaff. The contradictions.

Add that in with the total absence in the historical record. The similarities with other Bronze Age myths, the Adam and Eve myth, the great flood, the six day creation, the earth being the centre of the universe. Then asked myself, how could a being who created it all know so little about how it actually happened? To repeat what man knew at the time, which was fuck all. It is a curse. It demonises homosexuals. It hates shrimps, it tells us to kill people who work on Sundays. It tells us to kill all who do not believe. It tells us women are chattels. It tells us to kill witches.

How anyone can look at all that and say, that’s for me. That’s the truth. That’s good. Is beyond my comprehension and understanding of justice and compassion.

If he actually did exist and showed us he did, I would still reject him as I would any human tyrant who held his views of humanity.

My experience as a child where my critical and moral faculties were expected to think this was ok, is and was immoral. To frighten children that they will burn in hell for being human is abhorrent.

I’m sure Hitler had his nice moments. We look at the entirety of his life though and don’t cherrypick. Why do we cherrypick with god and spend our lives making up excuses and rationale for indefensible pronouncements and actions?

It’s wrong. Immoral and evil masquerading as good.

Mankind has been going in the homosapien form for up to 300,000 years, yet we are to believe he waited for 298,000 years before stepping in?

Nonsense.
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100,000-70,000 years.
 
arfurclue said:
Thanks for this. Glad to hear of the peace in your heart. I sometimes have this, sometimes not but would agree that a big part of coming to deeper know this, is letting go of being better or worse. But this is something I still fall over and, well, it kinda hurts. Religion, for me, is just a language - there are many of them - but I like the idea that they are the fingers pointing a the moon, as quoted earlier in this thread.

For me I found a way that is similar to what some call the taoist water method as known through Lao Tzu.

It's basic tenets are:
1) Naturalness
2) Inner balance
3) Relaxation
4) Making your body conscious
5) Seventy percent : Do neither too much nor too little
6) Letting go
7) Wu so Hui
8) When the false leaves only the true remains

Won't go deeply into these now It is probably fair to say that is not so prevalent in the west. And yes, I forget this at times - so sometimes when I write, it'll seem for me quite simple and clear yet for others this will seem like gobbledegook. But even within this I might say that each language may eventually come to the idea of letting go of the inner critic as the source of truth (ie seeing it is false) along with its tones of harshness and arrogance that bring about suffering and strife. Beyond that, I first came to this through martial arts (actually it was book called The Tao of Winnie the Pooh but...) but through that I came to see that I wasn't so much learning martial arts but that martial arts was one just one way of 'learning' to open to Truth. No better or worse than any other way, just different. In this way on these threads I have wondered if the areas of the likes of depression, football and politics can also come to be a way to open to Truth - not to force on anyone but for those who freely choose.

Anyhow. Peace to you and all. However misguided or deluded I may come across to some, I am glad I have given it a go
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So what are the sins that you committed that you're hoping for forgiveness for?
 
aguero93:20 said:
No attachment or affection for anyone else? Where does that lead?
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No attachment is great if yo understand the teaching is one of saying that attachment is a way of relating that is their way of saying being addicted to/ dependent on. So drop the attachment and one can come to know an ever deeper, genuinely warm connection. The only thing is, that's going to involve becoming aware of, and letting go of the aspect of 'self' that relates in an attached way. From the way you have written on this thread, you are a way of being willing to do that - its that same part that will be running your life, telling you that's these understanding/perceptions are 'right.' How might I have a hint of this? I had to look at it within myself and realise attachments might get in the way of deeper states of naturalness, relaxation, balance etc as mentioned in the post on taoist tenets.
 
BimboBob said:
So in your religion everyone else is better than you, has deeper feelings and wiser judgement?

Captain Bringdown or what.
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Lmao - is more a paradox of letting go of 'being better than' which gets in the way of opening to the best (ie shared essence) within. But if by Captan Bringdown
you mean coming to feel more grounded, then yes - and it's truly beautiful to experience this. Genuinely, would recommend this if its the one thing anyone ever learns...
 
arfurclue said:
No attachment is great if yo understand the teaching is one of saying that attachment is a way of relating that is their way of saying being addicted to/ dependent on. So drop the attachment and one can come to know an ever deeper, genuinely warm connection. The only thing is, that's going to involve becoming aware of, and letting go of the aspect of 'self' that relates in an attached way. From the way you have written on this thread, you are a way of being willing to do that - its that same part that will be running your life, telling you that's these understanding/perceptions are 'right.' How might I have a hint of this? I had to look at it within myself and realise attachments might get in the way of deeper states of naturalness, relaxation, balance etc as mentioned in the post on taoist tenets.
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Well look at it this way, I'm quite happy to allow my attachments towards my partner and my two young children dictate my life, they depend on me and I have responsibilities towards them. I love them and my attachments and responsibilities towards them bring me greater happiness than anything else could.
No doubt I could have more freedom if I abandoned them, but then I'd be a piece of shit.

I'll ask again, what sins are you looking to be forgiven for?
 
aguero93:20 said:
It can't be that, because it's all about what you feel. You feel something, you can't explain it to us, that places your feelings above anything we think.
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By feel, I mean opening to experience the shared essence that is at the heart of all us. You, I, everyone one this thread however differently they may choose to write. But this feeling involves a letting go of attachment to the mind that incessantly needs to explain everything. This attachment is hard work - a bit like the religious doctrine of 'work ethic'...so you could be said to be arguing for a way of christian religious doctrine more than I am. Intriguing
 
arfurclue said:
Lmao - is more a paradox of letting go of 'being better than' which gets in the way of opening to the best (ie shared essence) within. But if by Captan Bringdown
you mean coming to feel more grounded, then yes - and it's truly beautiful to experience this. Genuinely, would recommend this if its the one thing anyone ever learns...
Click to expand...

So why do you need an organisation to show you how to do that? In my non religious world I was brought up and had similar values installed in me by my parents. No need for jealousy about other people, enjoy what you have in your life. Also no need for an organised religion to pump me roughly every weekend/ during the week with a load of nonsense designed to put down the great unwashed.

You are a human. Have a life. Enjoy stuff without feeling guilty. Embrace your existence because this is the only one you are getting.
 
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aguero93:20 said:
Well look at it this way, I'm quite happy to allow my attachments towards my partner and my two young children dictate my life, they depend on me and I have responsibilities towards them. I love them and my attachments and responsibilities towards them bring me greater happiness than anything else could.
No doubt I could have more freedom if I abandoned them, but then I'd be a piece of shit.

I'll ask again, what sins are you looking to be forgiven for?
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Non attachment does not mean abandoning them, actually you would find that could be with them from an even greater Loving depth than now. Would it be so bad to suggest that, with practice, the Love that is shared within a family can grow even deeper, even broader whilst also bringing a deeper sense of freedom for all?

You can read the thread if you want to talk about 'my sins' but for now, with the way you write it would seem pretty pointless to share anymore on that with you to be honest.
 
BimboBob said:
So why do you need an organisation to show you how to do that? In my non religious world I was brought up and had similar values installed in me by my parents. No need for jealousy about other people, enjoy what you have in your life. Also no need for an organised religion to pump me roughly every weekend/ during the week with a load of nonsense designed to put down the great unwashed.

You are a human. Have a life. Enjoy stuff with feeling guilty. Embrace your existence because this is the only one you are getting.
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Go on - tell me which organisation I am part of? Which organisational doctrine do I strictly follow?
 
arfurclue said:
Enjoy your ignorance - the funny thing is you no idea what it is costing you. Or is that tragic. Anyhow I can understand if you understand with being anti-christ, that any form of christianity might not be for you - as the resurrection is about opening to christ and the end of that which is anti-christ. On the one hand humanity might stop trying to crucify each other, which is quite a good thing I reckon on balance. On the other hand it will mean the death of you? Not such a good thing? Maybe you want to do a bit more about it than write comments on bluemoon? So, there you go. But then what if...with the concept of neti neti, this definition of anti-christ is not who you really are. So you won't die. What might 'die' is a misdefinition of yourself. Good news, maybe? And that perhaps is one way this kind of practice can be useful for some. Ever known of the 'inner critic?' If not you, then can you appreciate that some have and this voice can be harsh to the point that it might lead to depression, self- destructive behaviour or even the taking of one's own life. So as folk come to realise that this critic does not speak the truth of who they really are....so these dark clouds may dissipate and the sun that was always there (but hidden) can come to be known. So a question : are you really so heartless that what is really valuable for you is to make 'clever' comments about people that share here, or have gone through misery elsewhere...or is that this voice you have valued is actually that which keeps you unaware of the Truth of You in the Heart? So you would get to be 'right' in your head about what you think of me but this gets in the way of knowing the joy of the Heart. A kind of pyrrhic victory, surely - albeit a 'clever' one at that? Or something else completely?
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So in response to my criticism about long drawn out responses, that go nowhere, you have answered with a long drawn out response that goes nowhere.
 
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