Gas & Electricity

[mackenzie]

A Michelin-starred restaurant in Dorset has been forced to close with "immediate effect" due to rising costs.

The Fontmell in Shaftesbury, which was listed in the 2022 Michelin guide, explained that supplier costs had increased to such a point that it was "no longer able to pass that cost" onto its customers.

In a message on the pub's Facebook page, the owner revealed that the pub's utilities alone have increased by £58,000 per year.

Back in 2008, when the banking crisis hit, an employer I worked closely with had to close. They had over 100 years of trading, and it wasn't that their product was shite (far from it), it was their overheads. Power/fuel bills etc.
Unless someone/anyone in Government gets a grip on this then there will be loads more

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

A Michelin-starred restaurant in Dorset has been forced to close with "immediate effect" due to rising costs.

The Fontmell in Shaftesbury, which was listed in the 2022 Michelin guide, explained that supplier costs had increased to such a point that it was "no longer able to pass that cost" onto its customers.

In a message on the pub's Facebook page, the owner revealed that the pub's utilities alone have increased by £58,000 per year.

If nothing is announced before October, thousands of others will be doing the same.

 

[Hayley Croppers chopper]

I’d like him to explain how it’s possible to improve the efficiency of a process where electrical energy is converted to heat. What is the energy byproduct that is wasted that could be reduced?

It’s not like going from a tungsten lightbulb to an LED where the saving is all the heat not generated. In a kettle, the heat is what you want.

I suspect he needs to familiarise himself with the first law of thermodynamics.

The first law of thermodynamics is we don’t talk about thermodynamics.

 

[city2]

Publican on tv tonight said his bill has gone from 12k to 56k this is gonna be really bad for us all.

 

[Bigga]

Mancs 'avin' a go!

 

[talkativesprout]

Been a while since i did science and tbh i didn't listen because Stacey Green had a small back and a massive set of jugs in 2nd year that interfered with my concentration. Boris said today that an old kettle could cost you more to boil the water. Am i being a bit thick but the energy used to boil say 100ml of water would be more or less the same no mater what kettle you used, the time to get to boil might differ slightly but surely you are using the same amount of energy....I'm happy to have got it twisted and be educated

 

[bluealf]

Just shut down my Aquariums after nearly 10 years, a sad event but one that is likely to save me a lot of money in the next few months and years.

 

[Bill Walker]

I’d like him to explain how it’s possible to improve the efficiency of a process where electrical energy is converted to heat. What is the energy byproduct that is wasted that could be reduced?

It’s not like going from a tungsten lightbulb to an LED where the saving is all the heat not generated. In a kettle, the heat is what you want.

I suspect he needs to familiarise himself with the first law of thermodynamics.

I kind of disagree with you here, a 1 bar electric fire uses 1 KW per hour and produces 1 KW of heat.
1 KW of electricity used by an air to air heap pump (like for instance a reverse cycle air conditioner) will give you 3KW of heat for 1 KW of energy used. (average COP is 3.2 KW).
An example of technical advances using electrical energy.
I've been saying for years that people in cold countries (like the UK) should be heating their homes with Heat Pumps, not inefficient Gas/Water systems. Much cheaper and instantaneous heat.

I think what Boris is alluding to is new kettle's are/can be more efficient than old one's, that could be through materials used, or the element being more efficient thereby needing less time to boil the water.
Some energy is lost through the heating of the kettle itself AND the surrounding air. Better materials with a more insulating effect can improve efficiency and eliminate these loses.
Technology is always improving and new appliances are generally much more efficient that old one's. Boris isn't wrong on this.
My new fridge/freezer uses about half the energy of my old one. Because it has Inverter technology rather than constant stop/start of the old compressor. It also has improved insulation all over it.

 

[west didsblue]

I kind of disagree with you here, a 1 bar electric fire uses 1 KW per hour and produces 1 KW of heat.
1 KW of electricity used by an air to air heap pump (like for instance a reverse cycle air conditioner) will give you 3KW of heat for 1 KW of energy used. (average COP is 3.2 KW).
An example of technical advances using electrical energy.
I've been saying for years that people in cold countries (like the UK) should be heating their homes with Heat Pumps, not inefficient Gas/Water systems. Much cheaper and instantaneous heat.

I think what Boris is alluding to is new kettle's are/can be more efficient than old one's, that could be through materials used, or the element being more efficient thereby needing less time to boil the water.
Some energy is lost through the heating of the kettle itself AND the surrounding air. Better materials with a more insulating effect can improve efficiency and eliminate these loses.
Technology is always improving and new appliances are generally much more efficient that old one's. Boris isn't wrong on this.
My new fridge/freezer uses about half the energy of my old one. Because it has Inverter technology rather than constant stop/start of the old compressor. It also has improved insulation all over it.

If an element is more efficient, where does the wasted electrical energy in the inefficient element go?

Inefficient boilers for example lose their waste heat through their flues but an element submerged in water can only transfer its energy to the water.

As for heat pumps, they take energy from ambient air to amplify the energy put into the pump. I’m not aware of kettles that use that technology. Maybe I’m wrong.

 

[Nightmare Walking]

I kind of disagree with you here, a 1 bar electric fire uses 1 KW per hour and produces 1 KW of heat.
1 KW of electricity used by an air to air heap pump (like for instance a reverse cycle air conditioner) will give you 3KW of heat for 1 KW of energy used. (average COP is 3.2 KW).
An example of technical advances using electrical energy.
I've been saying for years that people in cold countries (like the UK) should be heating their homes with Heat Pumps, not inefficient Gas/Water systems. Much cheaper and instantaneous heat.

I think what Boris is alluding to is new kettle's are/can be more efficient than old one's, that could be through materials used, or the element being more efficient thereby needing less time to boil the water.
Some energy is lost through the heating of the kettle itself AND the surrounding air. Better materials with a more insulating effect can improve efficiency and eliminate these loses.
Technology is always improving and new appliances are generally much more efficient that old one's. Boris isn't wrong on this.
My new fridge/freezer uses about half the energy of my old one. Because it has Inverter technology rather than constant stop/start of the old compressor. It also has improved insulation all over it.

The element will not be any more efficient. If you buy a new 1KW kettle to replace your old 1KW kettle, it will make hardly any difference what so ever, assuming you have not decided to chop the top off the kettle for some unknown reason.
It was an utterly moronic thing for him to say and utterly pointless.
Being better insulated will mean the water does not cool as quick, once it has boiled and no current is going through the element. Any savings would be negligible. But even if it did save you £10 per year. It does not justify the £60 outlay for a decent new kettle.

 

[Bill Walker]

If an element is more efficient, where does the wasted electrical energy in the inefficient element go?

There is no wasted electrical energy, only electrical energy saved, not used. (You bill will be less)

You alluded to the first law of thermodynamics.



When making energy more efficient we really need to look at the 2nd law of Thermodynamics. And how heat always transfers to cold, efficiency is gained by slowing down that transference. This is why it's a great idea to heavily insulate you home, to retain the heat your energy (heating system) has produced. (Unless you want to heat the street :))

If we want a bigger difference between Q and W (above) we need to slow down the DeltaU.

Put simply, we can use less energy with the same results through technology. Boris is correct about the new eco kettles.

 

[johnmc]

Fuck me. Equations and shit to prove Boris was right that we can save £10 a year by buying a new kettle, save for the fact the kettle will probably be £30 anyway. It won’t touch the sides.

 

[west didsblue]

There is no wasted electrical energy, only electrical energy saved, not used. (You bill will be less)

You alluded to the first law of thermodynamics.

View attachment 54583

When making energy more efficient we really need to look at the 2nd law of Thermodynamics. And how heat always transfers to cold, efficiency is gained by slowing down that transference. This is why it's a great idea to heavily insulate you home, to retain the heat your energy (heating system) has produced. (Unless you want to heat the street :))

If we want a bigger difference between Q and W (above) we need to slow down the DeltaU.

Put simply, we can use less energy with the same results through technology. Boris is correct about the new eco kettles.

The problem with this is that kettles are used to boil water and be used immediately. Having a better insulated kettle will stop the water cooling down as quickly if it isn’t used straight after it boils. Most people boil a kettle to use the water while it’s boiling rather than to store it and use it later.
All an eco kettle does is better control the amount of water boiled, so that less is routinely wasted. Carefully measuring the water you need in a normal kettle would have the same effect.

 

[TINY]

My bill has just gone up from 340 a month to 630 a month, I genuinely don't know what I'm gonna do, I'm just in shock, it's double my mortgage

Get onto a smart meter and pay for what you use, everyone around me has gone from ££200 to £400 or more, our gas and electric in august was £87. That’s a 3 bed semi, but just the two of us and a dog.

I check it everyday, todays cost us £2.24 (we both work from home mostly). We’re with Utility Warehouse

 

[johnmc]

The problem with this is that kettles are used to boil water and be used immediately. Having a better insulated kettle will stop the water cooling down as quickly if it isn’t used straight after it boils. Most people boil a kettle to use the water while it’s boiling rather than to store it and use it later.
All an eco kettle does is better control the amount of water boiled, so that less is routinely wasted. Carefully measuring the water you need in a normal kettle would have the same effect.

No offence mate but that irrelevant in the scheme of things

 

[denislawsbackheel]

Can we just clarify that whatever Johnson said today, right or wrong, he is still a ****?

 

[Bill Walker]

Fuck me. Equations and shit to prove Boris was right that we can save £10 a year by buying a new kettle, save for the fact the kettle will probably be £30 anyway. It won’t touch the sides.

Wasn't me who brought up the Law of Thermodynamics mate. But I do love all that shit.
Boris didn't have this idea, it isn't him who is right (or wrong) it's his advisors, I don't think Boris has a fucking clue.

 

[denislawsbackheel]

Is the right answer

 

[west didsblue]

No offence mate but that irrelevant in the scheme of things

Yes I know. Sometimes it happens on here.

 

[johnmc]

Wasn't me who brought up the Law of Thermodynamics mate. But I do love all that shit.
Boris didn't have this idea, it isn't him who is right (or wrong) it's his advisors, I don't think Boris has a fucking clue.

Not having a go at you my friend but the whole cutting down on things or being more sensible is great, we should all be doing that anyway however it doesn’t matter. Standing charges remain so even if you use fuck all it’s costing you. If you sit in the dark, in the cold, in silence. It’s costing you. Saving £10 a year with a new kettle that will cost you £30/40 anyway. Just shows how out of touch these cunts are.