VAR thread 2022/23

[Cassandra]

"Protocol" is simply the official description of the rules for VAR.

I agree that it was an easy decision yesterday, but the problem is where do you draw the line? You don't want the VAR to be arguing about 50/50 or 60/40 challenges for a simple foul, or even a yellow card - they may have importance, but they're much more common and much less important events than a red card or goal. So, would you say, only when it's really obvious...or maybe "clear and obvious"?

And that's the problem - how many discussions are there about what a "clear and obvious" error is, and how many times does "clear and obvious" seem to depend on the team people support? Yesterday was an unusually poor decision, but it's an outlier - I doubt we'll see another decision like it all next season, but if we change the rules we might see a lot more marginal decisions argued over endlessly.

All that might not make sense to you, but the thing to remember is that VAR isn't there to fix all decisions - it's been decided all over the world that it will only look at the major ones, and we leave the others to the ref's on field decision, even though we know they'll make mistakes. Introducing a rule that only applies to the really obvious ones, isn't possible, and given how much controversy VAR generates, they'd be mad to try and introduce a rule which only affects some yellow card offences, but not others.

On your other point, the ref would have to stick to his original decision. As soon as it went to review yesterday, he must have been told/realised that he'd make a mistake, so seeing it doesn't change the rules he has to follow.

In this case the referee gave the decision instantly, there didn’t seem to be time for him to have consulted over the coms with his colleagues. Therefore when doubt is cast on his original decision he would surely wish then to ask his colleagues for their opinion. At this point VAR has not told him directly to review his decision so within the protocol he can discuss it with the fourth official who had the best view of all the officials. Better to do that than to allow a total injustice in my opinion, and there is a better case for doing that within the Laws than many courses of action we’ve seen from referees this season.

 

[Fred_Quimby]

In this case the referee gave the decision instantly, there didn’t seem to be time for him to have consulted over the coms with his colleagues. Therefore when doubt is cast on his original decision he would surely wish then to ask his colleagues for their opinion. At this point VAR has not told him directly to review his decision so within the protocol he can discuss it with the fourth official who had the best view of all the officials. Better to do that than to allow a total injustice in my opinion, and there is a better case for doing that within the Laws than many courses of action we’ve seen from referees this season.

The fourth official either didn't see it or didn't want to countermand the referee. Therefore VAR only looks at Akanji's 'foul' to see if it was a red. It wasn't so 'play on'. The problem was the original decision. If Tierney had given it the other way the Casemiro may well have gone but because he gave it against Akanji it was only his 'foul' that could be looked at.

 

[Cassandra]

The fourth official either didn't see it or didn't want to countermand the referee. Therefore VAR only looks at Akanji's 'foul' to see if it was a red. It wasn't so 'play on'. The problem was the original decision. If Tierney had given it the other way the Casemiro may well have gone but because he gave it against Akanji it was only his 'foul' that could be looked at.

Of course that is correct, if the 4th official says "Sorry mate, I didn't see it." then the referee can't do anything about it. But nonetheless it would have been better for him to have been seen to ask the question. Gungodan seems to have been explaining to the referee what happened judging by his gesturing - pushing his fist into his wrist. I doubt whether Guardiola saw it in its fullness.

One day perhaps a manager seeing that sort of challenge and the refereeing decision will say, quietly, in the 4th official's ear "If you are not going to protect my players from that sort of challenge then I will be obliged to take them off the pitch for their own safety". That would bring matters to a head - particularly if done in a Cup Final when his team is winning and the match has a massive audience around the world. I doubt that manager would survive, however, it would be far better than chasing the referee round the car park.

 

[Blue Mist]

The studs up one was "contentious" because he played the ball first. It's a load of rubbish, but I think Van Dijk got away with one in Europe a few years back for the same reason. 100% red card for me.

The second, was a bit odder, as Casemiro is actually walking backwards for quite a few yards, while he's got his hands on Hughes, and some shots show that he originally had them on Hughes' shoulders. I guess he could argue that Hughes is the aggressor and Casemiro is holding him off, whereas the ref was only shown the shots without that context. Again a red for me, but I can see why it was a VAR controversy given the angles they showed. I don't think I'd have complained if it was yellow though.

Cheers for the reply but it still means we can only think of 2 possible contentious decisions that have gone against the rags. I know they don't score many, but no one can think of a goal chaked off for a foul in the build up or a penalty given against them.
Don't worry though these things even themselves out and Var ensures the correct decision is made.

 

[Cassandra]

United had a goal chalked off against Spurs after VAR spotted a flailing arm catch Son, I would have been upset if that had happened against us.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

Cheers for the reply but it still means we can only think of 2 possible contentious decisions that have gone against the rags. I know they don't score many, but no one can think of a goal chaked off for a foul in the build up or a penalty given against them.
Don't worry though these things even themselves out and Var ensures the correct decision is made.

Generally, any contentious decisions against the Rag's don't tend to effect the outcome of games.

The bullshit offside against us at the Swamp turned the game on its head.

 

[stonerblue]

Casemiro’s was a RED but they didn’t want to spoil the FA flagship competition as a spectacle.

So VAR was manipulated to allow the Rags to remain with the full 12 players on the pitch,

And Freds 5 yellow card fouls ?

 

[stonerblue]

You did miss one incident, as did everyone else.

Wan-Bissaka handball. Proximity to the ball was greater than the Grealish penalty. Hit his hand? Yes. Arm in unnatural position? It was by his side, but Grealish's hand wasn't really in an unnatural position considering he was jumping.

Difference is, City players didn't immediately appeal for the decision. Foden tried to continue the attack. He did then run to the referee asking for a penalty for handball, but they just got on with the game without further mention of the incident.

They had already set the standard for giving a penalty at very soft. This one should at least have been referred to the referee.

Yep. Any var lovers wanna try and explain this one then..

 

[BlueAnorak]

VAR will always be contentious till:
1. The comms between the VAR official and the Referee is made public.
2. In offside, decisions, the point in time when a ball is passed headed or deflected is clearly visible over a series of TV image frames on a box displayed in a cornervof the in the main screen and the red/green lines move accordingly.
3. Some of the stupid rules are changed or clarified. e.g. Deliberate handball, holding in the penalty area, obstructing the view of the keeper and deflecting the ball when a player attempts to head a ball and doesn't have a clue who is behind him (if the scorer is offside, at the point of the cross is made then he's offside - a deflection is NOT playing the ball.)

 

[Blue Mist]

United had a goal chalked off against Spurs after VAR spotted a flailing arm catch Son, I would have been upset if that had happened against us.

This season? If so that's one to add to the two maybes. Wow its really adding up, no wonder they finished 3rd.