EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
Status
Not open for further replies.
EalingBlue2 said:
The Mail is all those things even hidden by sarcastic exaggeration, I am glad you feel the need to jump to that tax dodgers right wing rag though. If more energy was spent dealing with people like him rather than poor immigrants you may start to get some of the improvements in equality, fairness, health , education etc you should be wanting.
Click to expand...

I note the political editor of the Guardian whom I'm sure you would have more time for than the mail has put forward his argument for brexit

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...nswer-to-dying-eurozone-eu-undemocratic-elite

I'm assuming you're a socialist in the true sense rather than right wing version under TB - most socialists have put together the LEXIT campaign which is where we all know Jeremy Corbyn would love to be rallying with (not even convinced he's going to put a cross on remain) -

Paul Mason another left wing political/economist formerly of Newsnight and Channel 4 news has written some great pieces in his time about the grave social injustices of the eu - Just interested what you make of their views on brexit as they come from the same side of the table
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Don't ruin the illusion! They are free as birds almost anarchic in their lack of red tape!
Click to expand...

I agree completely.........was just hoping that these reports could show them that the ideas/dreams that the "leaves" are trying to sell them are completely false and have absolutely no grip on the reality.....The Michael Gove's of this world are just like a car salesman that sells you a car without an engine.......looks nice and shiny from a distance but when you get in and turn the key, nothing works....if they really think leaving the EU is going to fix things like immigration issues, they going to have the biggest shock of their lives(as the example in that report showed)...sadly, some people find it easier to question the experts, laugh at the economists and refuse to believe the facts......and are happy to bet/risk the economy and people's jobs etc on the pipe dream that Gove is trying to sell us.....I agree the EU isnt perfect, what is these days but until we willing to fix the problems at home....absolutely nothing changes.....and for some thats going to be a very hard lesson to learn.....
 
AlgarveBlu said:
There were two crisis :- first the subprime lending crisis which lead to the collapse of the banks which is what I think you are referring to Lehamns etc (nothing to do with the euro but those spivvy tech guys at the back office of the big investment banks)

second - was the Eurozone crisis which was a symptom of the causes of the first crisis i.e far greater scrutiny of what the banks were holding in Europe as financial buffers. This led to the speculators tearing apart the weaker nations sovereign debt which is why we find ourselves 7 years on in this continuous malaise and that is the sole fault of the construct of the euro.
Click to expand...
I realise and appreciate the difference, and I know which of the two I was referring to, which was actually my point. Some people are so consumed with antipathy for the EU (and by association, the Euro) then they cling on to every conceivable possiblity of its demise with indecent and ill-judged haste. A bit like a rags in the last couple of seasons when they've won a Derby, getting all giddy and thinking they're going to overtake us again.
 
YPhrunts said:
Nothing will change for two years. That is a considerable time. Who know who would follow our example and leave or make plans to hold their own referendum. There might be more trading partners than you seem to think. But you're probably right, we are a fucking useless country when it comes to business and finance and without the apron strings of the EU we will plummet into an oblivious world of the horse and cart and starvation.
Click to expand...

Like we were before we joined.

99935.jpg
 
Chippy_boy said:
I can kind of agree with that (apart from your assessment that it is "dire anyway". I don't think you have much of a view of what's going on in the rest of the world if you think the EU's situation is "dire"!) But nevertheless my view is that it is still better to stay in, and use the growing tide of discontent as a platform for reform... for example introducing caps on migration in "special circumstances".
Click to expand...

If you could get special caps on migration we probably wouldn't be having this referendum as ukip wouldn't have been able to build up their power base to scare dc and the rest is history -

I've posted before but the Swiss posed that very question in their referendum in 2014 and the eu have not accepted the decision of the people - February next year is crunch time as it's the eu versus the swiss constitution and something has to give - should be a corker!
 
gordondaviesmoustache said:
I realise and appreciate the difference, and I know which of the two I was referring to, which was actually my point. Some people are so consumed with antipathy for the EU (and by association, the Euro) then they cling on to every conceivable possiblity of its demise with indecent and ill-judged haste. A bit like a rags in the last couple of seasons when they've won a Derby, getting all giddy and thinking they're going to overtake us again.
Click to expand...

ok, I misunderstood - wish we could of had a referendum on pelligrini instead 2 years ago
 
AlgarveBlu said:
I note the political editor of the Guardian whom I'm sure you would have more time for than the mail has put forward his argument for brexit

http://www.theguardian.com/commenti...nswer-to-dying-eurozone-eu-undemocratic-elite

I'm assuming you're a socialist in the true sense rather than right wing version under TB - most socialists have put together the LEXIT campaign which is where we all know Jeremy Corbyn would love to be rallying with (not even convinced he's going to put a cross on remain) -

Paul Mason another left wing political/economist formerly of Newsnight and Channel 4 news has written some great pieces in his time about the grave social injustices of the eu - Just interested what you make of their views on brexit as they come from the same side of the table
Click to expand...
It has certainly split the left as well as the right though , the left are staying out of both sides of the vote and letting the right rip itself in two. It's an interesting though slightly cowardly position in many ways. I flick through all the British press online - have my issues with the guardian too as it can be a bit too focuses on the small things and more trendy than ideological at times .

I still disagree with them but for different reasons, I am still a believer in devolution and federalism happening together and that the interests of the poor, of the average working person having much in common across borders. I believe Europe in the main at least socially is more left wing and that the old cliche of United we stand divided we fall is apt about Europe as well as about individuals. There is also plenty of ignorance and prejudice from the left as well as right they are just all keeping their gobs shut at the moment
 
AlgarveBlu said:
If you could get special caps on migration we probably wouldn't be having this referendum as ukip wouldn't have been able to build up their power base to scare dc and the rest is history -

I've posted before but the Swiss posed that very question in their referendum in 2014 and the eu have not accepted the decision of the people - February next year is crunch time as it's the eu versus the swiss constitution and something has to give - should be a corker!
Click to expand...
The Swiss can choose at any point to engage with the EU as an entirely foreign body.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
It has certainly split the left as well as the right though , the left are staying out of both sides of the vote and letting the right rip itself in two. It's an interesting though slightly cowardly position in many ways. I flick through all the British press online - have my issues with the guardian too as it can be a bit too focuses on the small things and more trendy than ideological at times .

I still disagree with them but for different reasons, I am still a believer in devolution and federalism happening together and that the interests of the poor, of the average working person having much in common across borders. I believe Europe in the main at least socially is more left wing and that the old cliche of United we stand divided we fall is apt about Europe as well as about individuals. There is also plenty of ignorance and prejudice from the left as well as right they are just all keeping their gobs shut at the moment
Click to expand...

That is a noble outlook but to me the eu have had the opposite impact of systematically creating more poverty, opaqueness, unemployment and social disharmony. Even the IMF have said Greece needs major debt restructuring. I fear the eu will end up once again with a very polarised populace and the centre ground will again be vacated to exits left and right and that does not bode well for the uk or Europe.
 
smudgedj said:
Amazing you manage to trade with the EU yet don´t subscribe to free movement.
Click to expand...
Barely and that's why we don't - nearly 50% of Swiss exports go to the EU, for Australia it's way under 10% we export more to Singapore than to the UK or Germany. Seems to be a pretty free movement of labour between Aus and the U.K. Anyway judging by Sydney and London
 
Remain say we can veto this and veto that and we have opt outs for this and opt outs for that but the EU makes up the rules as it goes along.

One of the best examples involves Article 125 of the EU treaty
“The Union shall not be liable for, or assume the commitments of, central governments, regional, local or other public authorities, other bodies governed by public law, or public undertakings of any Member State.” Thus, every single euro-bailout was illegal.
Christine Lagarde admitted: “We violated all the rules because we wanted to close ranks and really rescue the euro zone. The Treaty of Lisbon was very straightforward. No bailouts.”

If the EU is proud of bending the rules, how can it be trusted?

Dan Hannan-How We Invented Freedom & Why It Matters.
 
600 pages woo hoo!
Seems like there has been a bit of a lurch towards remain on here to considering last month it was 60% in favour of leaving.
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Barely and that's why we don't - nearly 50% of Swiss exports go to the EU, for Australia it's way under 10% we export more to Singapore than to the UK or Germany. Seems to be a pretty free movement of labour between Aus and the U.K. Anyway judging by Sydney and London
Click to expand...


Ok so just to ensure no ambiguity to what you are saying is.

Australia is able to trade with the eu if it chooses to even though miles away and 10 percent of its trade is with the eu.

And

Switzerland which is in Europe but not part of the eu, trades 50 percent with the eu.

Sorry I thought it was a special club......
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
Ok so just to ensure no ambiguity to what you are saying is.

Australia is able to trade with the eu if it chooses to even though miles away and 10 percent of its trade is with the eu.

And

Switzerland which is in Europe but not part of the eu, trades 50 percent with the eu.

Sorry I thought it was a special club......
Click to expand...
Racist.
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
Ha ha.

That is the nonsense of the debate. Inners present the figures like the eu is an isolated trading block and some magical club that those outside can only look at with envy.

I am just glad an inner put forward the stats for me .....Boom.....
Click to expand...
I wonder if its actually some of the inners that are dragging the argument away from economics as their own figures do not add up? We all realise the £350m per week is a gross figure and the net one is much less - but its still more than the fuck all we'd pay if we left.
Its also interesting that the inners try to split immigration into EU vs non EU. Even the most rwnj on here has only asker for a points/skills/needs based system and has not mentioned race iirc?
The fact is that money talks, and even if the EU had a massive monk on about us leaving it will be business as usual.
Anything they do above what our own govt does for us (with our money ffs) is an issue we need to address internally at the ballot box - an option not open to us with the EU commission. The same goes for human rights issues and legislation. We need to leave and engage with our own internal politics more or we'll just be swapping one set of corrupt civil servants for another - a point I do agree with the remainers on.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top